Manufacturing unions are on the way out, but i predict that service industry unions will become very powerful in the next 20 years due to the fact that the service industry pays very low and the fact that low paying service jobs are among the fastest growing in the economy.
Absolutely correct. Unlike manufacturing, services typically can’t be moved out of country. Think health care, hotels, secretarial and custodial services, etc. There’s a reason AFSCME and SEIU are the two largest, and fastest growing, unions in the nation today.
That’s true too. But how much or how little value is placed on anything (seniority, for example) is, at the end of the day, negotiable. That’s what makes unions so important, IMO: whatever issues the membership feels are important, that’s what they take to the table.
Yeah? Why don’t you go home to your hammer-and-sickle and your gulags?
Any ignorant pinhead would know that swastikas have more in common with liberal ideology than conservative ideology. And I’ve seen more labor unions than class III firearms.
And thanks for tarring me as “blindly conservative”, as if any opinion that runs counter to yours can’t possibly be rationally well-thought out . :mad:[sup]—Putz![/sup]
:o I meant Mondale.
This would be a very large, politically influential union. They make cars. Granted, the worst abuses seem to have slowed, but that may be more to declining union membership than anything else.
The democratic process stays democratic only as long as there are checks and balances in place. Ultimately the problems I see with unions stem from two sources: they have insufficient, internal checks and balances; and like PACS, they don’t go away when their job is done. It is not just a matter of image and what makes the news. My wife’s family is pure, blue collar. I grew up in a blue collar state. I know no one who had a favorable experience with a labor union.
You bring up a valid point about two day weekends and 8 hour work days, etc. I am a white collar worker without a union. As a manager I typically work 50-60 hours a week with no overtime. As a worker bee programmer, I would sometimes get overtime. Of course, I can’t work a 35 hour week to balance things out, because then the government wouldn’t get billed for my salary. (You can’t get OT routinely as an “exempt” employee, that would violate the law.)
p.s. Wesley Clark, I voted for Nadar.
What’s wrong is they aren’t active enough lately.
Why aren’t they doing what they used to by pointing out corporate greed?
Seems now they only tackle outrageous behavior, like when companies cancel retirement funds people have paid into for decades.
But why not the stump speeches of old, denouncing CEOs that get multimillion dollar bonuses at the same time regualr workers are asked to take pay cuts?
And multi-million dollar golden parachutes when old timers don’t a pension at all?
And oursourcing the lower ranks because plebe labor is chaper in India - Don’t they know CEO’s work for 1% as much there as well?
Now that’s a union I could support.
I am pleased to provide you all with a somewhat random history lesson that only vaguely relates to the topic at hand.
Seriously, some of you mentioned that workers only have the choice to join the union or quit their job. In Canada, at least, we offer our workers a third choice, called the Rand Formula.
This all started with a judge (named Rand, actually) who was faced with a group of Johova’s Witnesses who refused to join their applicable union because of there religious beliefs. Naturally, the judge couldn’t force them to go against their religion, but it also wasn’t fair if they didn’t have to pay the same union dues as everyone else, but still got the protection and benefits the union provided all the workers. So the Rand Formula? Workers can pay the same amount as union dues to charity, instead of supporting the union. (Thus eliminating any financial benefit for those who opt out).
I’m sure it probably involves a whole lot of paperwork, but there is another option. I’m afraid I have no idea if this applies in the States, nor what might happen to a worker if they did not pay dues to a particularily nasty union. But that’s another issue all together.
From someone smarter than me: http://www.mylegalanswers.com/answers.asp?qna=4525
Two words: West Virginia. Unions have run this state into the ground and now NO corporation that could provide real jobs to people here will come anywhere near us. They don’t want to deal with the union nutsos.
Two years ago, my husband was hired as the engineering and facilities manager at a wire mill that made hangers. Shortly after he got there, he found out the workers were planning to invite a union in - one of the mechanics let it slip, not knowing my husband was a manager.
On the corporate side: They used to pay automatic raises and bonuses, regardless of how the company was doing. Well, due to foreign competition and excessive plant scrap rates, they were losing money at that plant, yet still paying raises and bonuses and lots of overtime. So they decided to put a stop to that. And the workers found union reps who promised to get them back all they lost and more.
Oh yeah - the company paid 100% of their health insurance too.
Anyway, the union came in. After negotiations, the workers came away with the same pay they’d had in the first place, no overtime guaranteed, no more health benefits, and they had to pay union dues on top of that.
A couple months later, my husband left for a better job. About 6 months after that, the plant closed down and the company is now in bankruptcy. I don’t mean to imply that the union was the sole cause - the CEO and VP for production were fired for being wasteful and incompetent - but if the employees were a bit more efficient and less greedy, maybe they’d still be employed…
what an @sshat statement.
I am NOT conservative in the least, have belonged [under HEAVY protest] to a union and detest them with every ounce of my being. Only thing they ever dd to me was collect my membership fees, and tell me I should go on strike because a different companies employees [we were comprised of workers from 5 or 6 different local companies] were unhappy with their conditions. I was perfectly happy with mine. Didn’t negotiate or protect me from jack crap. What benefit was I supposed to be getting?
And the only swasticas I have are on my copy of Kipling [red leather bindings with gold leaf, pre-1920 and belonged to my grandfather. Great stories and poems, especially the Just-So Stories=)] and I don’t have a class 3 license, but I do have a couple regular guns inthe house [mr aru likes hunting, and they are good if animals bother the livestock] :dubious:
I’ll pony up my opinion as a consumer (and a Democrat, FTR)… What I dislike about unions is that they often hinder, and even cripple, the public’s access to goods and services, when we, the public, have no dog in their fight. And no, I don’t believe for a moment that every time they do battle with the Big Bad Corporation that it’s ultimately to my benefit – it’s often to my detriment. Sure unions at one time served a very valid (and much needed) purpose. But I think they’ve outlived their usefulness in that regard, as the labor laws that are the most critical are fairly regulated now. I’m sick of having my access cut off over someone else’s labor dispute, and I particularly resent the bullying tactics employed by union members if I dare not to support whatever their cause is. I shouldn’t have to be subjected to big sticks waved in my face; large, intimidating crowds gathered at entrances to businesses; and taunting and rude attitudes as I attempt to go about my business.