# What's wrong with my friend? (Mental condition..) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 11, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259 "2011-10-11T04:32:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/21 "2011-10-11T23:10:47Z")
I’m just curious…what about him makes him a good friend? If I knew someone like this, I’d be running away from them! ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/22 "2011-10-11T23:51:49Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Do you have a cite for antidepressants being known risks for severe violence and suicide, in the general population? Because I’ve always been aware of the increased risk of suicide for _children_ using SSRI anti-depressants but that is a small subset. > > [Redirect Notice](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CHoQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ahrp.org%2Frisks%2FSSRI0904%2FBreggin.php&ei=79GTTumuKer20gG-vJiRCA&usg=AFQjCNHKxtCM64FjIoIWrEObGh7_a3t0dA) > > This seems to confirm the risks of violence and suicide for _children_, but that’s it. For a citation, you could find one in big print on the box itself. They are forced to carry a “black box” warning for risk of suicide after taking them. The evidence became overwhelming and that’s when the FDA forced them to carry it. [http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/06/08/the-black-box-warning-antidepressants-and-the-risk-of-suicide/](http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/06/08/the-black-box-warning-antidepressants-and-the-risk-of-suicide/) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/23 "2011-10-12T00:00:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sounds like a textbook case of “douchebag”. Dear God, I hope that never makes it into the psychiatric diagnosis manuals! We’ll be drowning in people who are defending their assholishness as a medical condition. ---
**Author:** ![heavyarms553](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/779978/32.png) [@heavyarms553](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heavyarms553)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/24 "2011-10-12T00:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s just no way to know this from a second-hand retelling of his behavior. There are very likely details missing, distorted, misinterpreted, etc… and I’ll reiterate that sticking an armchair interwebz diagnosis on him won’t accomplish anything unless he himself decides to get help (and a real diagnosis). Well of course it is impossible to definitively diagnose him from a second hand description posted on an internet message board, but given the vignette which was posted in the OP, histrionic fits best. I could completely change my opinion if I spoke with him. Also, this isn’t meant to help the OP’s friend, its just for shits n giggles. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/25 "2011-10-12T00:12:10Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > For a citation, you could find one in big print on the box itself. They are forced to carry a “black box” warning for risk of suicide after taking them. The evidence became overwhelming and that’s when the FDA forced them to carry it. > > [http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/06/08/the-black-box-warning-antidepressants-and-the-risk-of-suicide/](http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/06/08/the-black-box-warning-antidepressants-and-the-risk-of-suicide/) “On May 2, 2007, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) ordered that all antidepressant medications carry an expanded black-box warning incorporating information about an increased risk of suicidal symptoms **in young adults 18-24 years of age**. The so-called “black-box warning” appears as one of the first things listed on a medication’s insert — you know, that tiny piece of paper that has something like 10,000 words on it that virtually nobody reads.” Bolding mine. This is a quote from your link. The increased risk is specifically stated as being for _young adults_ within an age range ending at 24 years. The friend mentioned by the OP is well outside this age range being 31. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/26 "2011-10-12T00:15:42Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > The behaviors you’re describing are definitely in the Cluster B of personality disorders (antisocial, borderline, histrionic, narcissistic) but diagnosis of personality disorders is complicated. > > First, of all the DSM-IV diagnostic categories, personality disorders have the lowest reliability. Second, many of the criteria of personality disorders are exhibited by perfectly healthy people at some point - the consideration then becomes at what point do the behaviors become disordered (in the sense that they disrupt the person’s functioning)? Finally, a lot of people exhibit personality-disordered behavior under stress, but not outside of stressful situations. > > You don’t have to have a diagnosis for everything. “Jerk” or “annoying drama-filled person” is fine. Ditto that. He has friends, famly, and a job, just no girlfriend. It’s not so much a personality disorder as an annoying personality. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/27 "2011-10-12T02:17:59Z")
> [@heavyarms553](#): > > Well of course it is impossible to definitively diagnose him from a second hand description posted on an internet message board, but given the vignette which was posted in the OP, histrionic fits best. I could completely change my opinion if I spoke with him. Also, this isn’t meant to help the OP’s friend, its just for shits n giggles. Yeah, that last bit was mostly meant for the OP. Okay, now you’ve got a (possibly completely inaccurate) label for the guy. Now what? I’m also with the “why is this guy your friend?” crowd. ---
**Author:** ![heavyarms553](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/779978/32.png) [@heavyarms553](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heavyarms553)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/28 "2011-10-12T03:00:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Ditto that. He has friends, famly, and a job, just no girlfriend. It’s not so much a personality disorder as an annoying personality. There is nothing that says people with personality disorders can’t have friends, family, or jobs. In fact, people with histrionic personality disorder tend to be high (relatively) functioning and maintain all those things. There are quite a few scientists out there with schizoid personality disorder. There are many businessmen and entrepreneurs with narcissistic personality disorder. > [@](#): > > Okay, now you’ve got a (possibly completely inaccurate) label for the guy. Now what? Nothing. The OP asked what was wrong mentally with him, and I gave him a reasonable answer based on what he wrote. You can’t really treat personality disorders aside from therapy. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/29 "2011-10-12T04:55:29Z")
> [@heavyarms553](#): > > Nothing. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![heavyarms553](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/779978/32.png) [@heavyarms553](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heavyarms553)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/30 "2011-10-12T11:01:46Z")
Why is it such a big deal to you that I gave an armchair diagnosis to this guys friend? That was the whole point of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/31 "2011-10-12T11:19:46Z")
> [@heavyarms553](#): > > There are quite a few scientists out there with schizoid personality disorder. Representin’! > [@](#): > > Nothing. The OP asked what was wrong mentally with him, and I gave him a reasonable answer based on what he wrote. You can’t really treat personality disorders aside from therapy. I actually think your hypothesis is a good one. It was the first one that came to my mind. Knowing that the guy has a familiar psychological profile (won’t say if it’s a disorder…that’s for a doctor to decide) may help the OP be a better friend and also not take his crap personally. Regarding functionality. I’ve often wondered about this. I’m functional. I _do_ most of the right things. Able to pay my bills and not cause conflict with others (I don’t think). My personality is not all messed-up. So if you just looked at what I exhibit for public view, I am not disordered. But carrying out those things that most people do or have a desire to do…that’s when the weirdness shows. People also get a clue when they’ve known me for awhile. There’s the overt and covert sides to people. Some people show their dysfunctionality overtly. Others are more “behind the scenes” and it takes a while to see how they are “off”. Depending on how I’m feeling about myself on a given day, I’ll characterize myself as “disordered” or simply having a certain “style”. If the guy is hurting people and also experiencing depression (most PDs are associated with depression, IIRC), then it’s kind of hard to argue that his personality is harmless. But I don’t think this alone means someone has a PD. In the new DSM, many PDs are going to be dissolved. Practitioners will be able to select from a long list of symptoms and characterize a patient based on those features, rather than picking a big box that may or may not fit well. This makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/32 "2011-10-12T12:18:42Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > If people like this have friends who care enough about them to worry about them, there’s hope for me yet. 🙂 > > On a more serious note, does [Dependent personality disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_personality_disorder) fit him? > But really, HE is the one with the problem and HE is the one who should initiate and seek help. Never heard of this prior to starting the thread, but having read the Wikipedia entry, it struck a lot of “hits”. The **histrionic** descriptions missed on too many seemingly important traits. I Googled around for some online “tests” for personality disorder.. found [this one](http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html). I got my friend to sit it, nothing scored too highly, he got a 58% for histrionic (the highest of all categories). When I took the test answering how I think he should have been answering (I did this without him knowing), I scored 83% **dependant**. Thanks for the opinions and advice. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/33 "2011-10-12T12:54:05Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Dear God, I hope that never makes it into the psychiatric diagnosis manuals! We’ll be drowning in people who are defending their assholishness as a medical condition. “Ripped from the headlines” for one of the remaining Law & Order offspring (if there are any): “The Douchebag Defense!” ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/34 "2011-10-13T05:40:06Z")
> [@heavyarms553](#): > > Why is it such a big deal to you that I gave an armchair diagnosis to this guys friend? That was the whole point of the thread. Why do you think I’m disputing _you_ when I’ve already explicitly said I wasn’t? And in fact was agreeing with you in my last post? The OP started a thread looking for a label for this guy, which as several people have pointed out by now, accomplishes exactly nothing. Nothing will change until he decides to make changes _for himself_. The OP has no power to change him, not even with the “power” of a possibly-inaccurate label. Even if he does decide to make changes, the possibly-inaccurate label isn’t particularly useful, he’d still need an actual diagnosis. (Or better, a therapist who cares less about labels than about dealing with the specific issues that are going on.) As I said before… now the OP has a label. Now what? Or, perhaps more succinctly, SO what? What will the OP accomplish with said label? You can say “I think you should talk to someone about this” with or without the label. And that’s pretty much the sum total of what you can do. Frankly, getting mis"diagnosed" via hearsay by my unqualified long-distance relative was disruptive. When I’m already dealing with my own shit (with a qualified therapist), having someone throw their pet label at me too was obnoxious and just one more thing on top of the giant shit pile. It diverted attention and energy away from what I really needed to deal with. I don’t recommend doing this to someone you (theoretically) care about. And yes, I’m _still_ directing this at the OP. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/35 "2011-10-14T06:34:15Z")
Waiting for people to identify themselves with disorders that specifically make that impossible is just dumb. The point of a label is to let them know there’s an actual disorder for what they do so that maybe you might get through to them that there is something wrong with them. Because, otherwise, by definition, they will not seek help for their personality disorder. Other people telling you there is something wrong is about the only way you can even get that insight if you have certain disorders. And, really, **Kaio** , I don’t get your anger. Since you are already seeing someone, all you have to do is go to your therapist, ask them if you have X disorder, and they’ll answer you. I did it when I was accused of having Asperger’s. I was told that I did not come close. The end. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/36 "2011-10-14T09:30:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Waiting for people to identify themselves with disorders that specifically make that impossible is just dumb. The point of a label is to let them know there’s an actual disorder for what they do so that maybe you might get through to them that there is something wrong with them. Because, otherwise, by definition, they will not seek help for their personality disorder. Other people telling you there is something wrong is about the only way you can even get that insight if you have certain disorders. That is a very good point. Personality disorders are even more notorious for this lack of insight then other psychological afflictions. Such a disorder feels like “I am”, instead not like an “I have”. No-one with a chronic stomach ache will keep blaming all their meals for causing pain. They know the problem is with their own digestional track. In contrast, someone with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder doesn’t know she has a internal problem. All she knows is that she doesn’t work hard enougg and that everyone else around her are incompetent slackers. Someone with borderline just feels she needs people so badly, but they all, even the most promising people, just keep letting her down and keep turning against her. Someone with dependent disorder.. well, you fill in the blanks. ---
**Author:** ![Kika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5fc32e/32.png) [@Kika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kika)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/37 "2011-10-14T10:18:51Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > \ > > Frankly, getting mis"diagnosed" via hearsay by my unqualified long-distance relative was disruptive. When I’m already dealing with my own shit (with a qualified therapist), having someone throw their pet label at me too was obnoxious and just one more thing on top of the giant shit pile. It diverted attention and energy away from what I really needed to deal with. I don’t recommend doing this to someone you (theoretically) care about. > > \ I agree with this, and have experienced it myself. I am, however, a _huge_ hypocrite, because I have “diagnosed” my best friend as borderline. She doesn’t know I believe this, and she never will. Only my therapist (and now this board) knows. For me, it’s a coping mechanism to help me deal with some things where her perspective makes no sense to me. I know I can’t help her, aside from suggesting she seek help when she’s out of control. It does, however, help _me_ be more patient with her when she’s saying something that I can’t relate to. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/38 "2011-10-14T11:13:56Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Frankly, getting mis"diagnosed" via hearsay by my unqualified long-distance relative was disruptive. When I’m already dealing with my own shit (with a qualified therapist), having someone throw their pet label at me too was obnoxious and just one more thing on top of the giant shit pile. It diverted attention and energy away from what I really needed to deal with. I don’t recommend doing this to someone you (theoretically) care about. I sympathize, but I’m going to echo the responses about how someone needs to be told they have some kind of problem. Maybe the OP doesn’t need to go into specifics (and frankly, someone making me take a personality test would have thrown up red flags), but telling them, “Hey, are you doing alright? Because I’m not thinking you’re doing alright. Maybe you should get help? I’ll help you get help, because I’m really worried” is not a bad thing. It may not work, of course. At least right away. But the next time guy slumps into a depressive state, he may remember the OP’s words and actually get help (depression is usually what brings people with PDs into a therapist’s office). Also, I don’t think it’s impossible for a person with a PD to actually have insight into their problems…to acknowledge that their problems are not always externally-caused. When I was first diagnosed, I told my older sister about it. She read up about PDs and later called me up. She thought she had a PD too. I rolled my eyes too, wondering what she was angling for. But no, she had actually done a good job of pegging herself. If I had been forced to diagnose her with something (and she isn’t altogether mentally well, so it’s not like I would have had to force myself too hard), I would have gone for the same thing. She said something like, “Maybe I don’t have the disorder, but I think I have a lot of these traits.” I could tell she felt both relieved and empowered, because now she had a clue about her patterns with people and knew what urges to act against it. (And her hypothesis was one of the cluster Bs.) When I was diagnosed, I didn’t fight it because it made more sense than anything else I had heard. There was a sense of hopelessness upon hearing it, but at least I knew there was some kind of box that I fit in. Previous to that, I didn’t fit into diagnostic category very well and it was frustrating either just going along so as not to be an assholish patient or actually being that assholish patient by constantly challenging incorrect presumptions (like, “You’re a nervous, anxious person, aren’t you?” or “I think you’ve been depressed your whole life and that’s why you’re so under-developed.”) Of course, just knowing you have a PD does not mean it will make you better. Sometimes I think it can make things worse because now there is an excuse. But for me, it helped because while I didn’t feel like a total headcase, the archetypal example of the PD was just too close for comfort. So that kind of motivates me to break certain patterns. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/39 "2011-10-14T11:36:10Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m just curious…what about him makes him a good friend? If I knew someone like this, I’d be running away from them! I agree. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259/40 "2011-10-16T13:38:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m just curious…what about him makes him a good friend? If I knew someone like this, I’d be running away from them! > [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > I agree. He can be exceedingly generous, even when it’s at his own detriment (a trait present within _Dependent_ PD). We share a common interest in sports and business, and he can hold a conversation. His company can be enjoyed. Yes I am searching for a “label”, because it’s hard to help someone when you don’t know what their problem is. Posting the OP could result in nothing, or it could lead to my friend being diagnosed, and then treated for, something treatable. I want to be able to approach him and say “Friend, I think you might be suffering from _blah_, and it might be causing your depression/anxiety/loneliness/low self esteem/lack of personal responsibility/obsessive need to ask for advice/adolescent tendencies etc, and I’d like to help you”. Or not, or it could just all lead to nothing. But it’s worth trying. Thank you everyone for the advice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-my-friend-mental-condition/599259.md?page=3)