# What's wrong with Ron Paul? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 19, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153 "2011-10-19T16:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/21 "2011-10-19T21:37:37Z")
In a nutshell, the We the People (heh) Act would be the first step in rolling back the [incorporation doctrine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_doctrine). Essentially, with limited exception _none_ of the Constitution’s provisions, the Bill of Rights in particular, apply to the states. Setting a state religion, banning all guns, vesting the police with the authority to search you and your premises with impunity, etc. would all be within the purview of the states (barring any state constitutional provision). The idea that ‘people are afraid of untested ideas’ aptly demonstrates the limitations and general analytical handicaps of the majority of Paul/LaRouche fans. The overall inability to critically analyze or think various proposals through distinguishes them from those who can do so, and utterly reject unsound, dangerous, and abhorrent policy proposals. Again, a clock factory overrun by madmen will have some that occasionally display the correct time. However, the ruins are easy enough to see by those who tend to laugh at the naked emperor. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/22 "2011-10-19T22:12:20Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I actually feel like he comes closer to getting a free pass from the media than he does to being “censored.” I’d like to see a critical analysis of some of his more extreme ideas (and that’s relative to his regularly extreme ideas), like the [We the People Act](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.3893:#), which would effectively repeal the 4th Amendment and a large chunk of the 1st Amendment as they apply to states. The “libertarian” candidate wants to let states ban religions and sex as they see fit and violate their citizens’ privacy with impunity. I know there is a selective reading syndrome on these boards when it comes to the Comstitution, but since when does the first amendment apply to the states? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/23 "2011-10-19T22:12:23Z")
Interestingly, for all of his states’ right talk, Ron Paul does want to ban states from allowing union shops. He’s been a consistent cosponsor of a national “right to work” law. I guess states beating up their citizens for having sex or going to the wrong church is a-okay, but having to join a union or pay a fair-share fee? That’s just too much, and the federal government has to stop that _abuse._ ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/24 "2011-10-19T22:13:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I know there is a selective reading syndrome on these boards when it comes to the Comstitution, but since when does the first amendment apply to the states? July 9th, 1868. ETA: Which the federal court system recognized piecemeal between 1925 and 1947. It’s the law of the land now. Deal with it. Maybe the court decisions were wrong, but oh well, _stare decisis_ is on my side, not yours. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/25 "2011-10-19T22:30:20Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > July 9th, 1868. ETA: Which the federal court system recognized piecemeal between 1925 and 1947. It’s the law of the land now. Deal with it. Maybe the court decisions were wrong, but oh well, _stare decisis_ is on my side, not yours. Judicial review isn’t constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/26 "2011-10-19T22:33:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Judicial review isn’t constitutional. Especially if the flag has gold fringe. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/27 "2011-10-19T22:36:06Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Judicial review isn’t constitutional. Judicial review is neither mandated nor prohibited by the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/28 "2011-10-19T22:36:42Z")
I cannot be prosecuted if my name is in all caps, because that is only the corporation of me, not my name as a natural person. ETA: that’s an addition to **Lord Feldon** ’s comment. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/29 "2011-10-19T22:40:00Z")
“Judicial Review isn’t constitutional”? I know you mean well but that’s not a set of words I’m ready to accept without a lot of back up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/30 "2011-10-19T22:48:19Z")
Let me guess: everything that occurred after September 1789 is wrong. That’s about as good an argument as you will get. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/31 "2011-10-19T22:58:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Judicial review isn’t constitutional. So every time the court’s done it since Marbury versus Madison can be safely ignored, yes? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/32 "2011-10-19T23:04:27Z")
Correct. Judicial review is neither prohibited nor mandated in the Constitution. Those powers not expressed in the Constitution go to the states. The 10th amendment guarantees this. Therefore state nullification is the check on federal power. Jefferson in his Kentucky Resolution and Madison, father of the Constitution, in his Virginia Resolutions concur with me. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/33 "2011-10-19T23:09:17Z")
“The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.” “The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution.” ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/34 "2011-10-19T23:12:57Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I was just drafting a thread **Ron Paul: the right’s answer to Lyndon LaRouche**. Are you under the impression that Lyndon LaRouche is on the left?:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/35 "2011-10-19T23:14:57Z")
Jefferson agreed with nullification and state supremacy until he was president. Then he stopped believing in it. Later he went back to believing. Not only can I find a quote from a Founding Father on any side of any subject, I can find a quote from any particular Founding Father on any side of any subject. They argued with a system that was still in development, not with the developed system that exists today. What the Founding Fathers thought is not an argument. It’s like citing the Bible. People cherry pick whatever quote they want to make a point without showing any understanding of the whole. Selective reading indeed! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/36 "2011-10-19T23:25:31Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Jefferson agreed with nullification and state supremacy until he was president. Then he stopped believing in it. Later he went back to believing. > > Not only can I find a quote from a Founding Father on any side of any subject, I can find a quote from any particular Founding Father on any side of any subject. They argued with a system that was still in development, not with the developed system that exists today. > > What the Founding Fathers thought is not an argument. It’s like citing the Bible. People cherry pick whatever quote they want to make a point without showing any understanding of the whole. Selective reading indeed! When did Jefferson change his mind on this? So I guess your view represents understanding of the whole while a more strict interpretation lacks understanding ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/37 "2011-10-19T23:27:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > When did Jefferson change his mind on this? So I guess your view represents understanding of the whole while a more strict interpretation lacks understanding Or maybe a “strict interpretation” is just a excuse for picking and choosing what views you want to attribute to the FF? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/38 "2011-10-19T23:40:45Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Or maybe a “strict interpretation” is just a excuse for picking and choosing what views you want to attribute to the FF? It’s an excuse for reading the document and words from people instrumental in it’s creation in order to gain an understanding of their intentions. Is that wrong? I mean say you find a letter and can’t read it. You’re with two people. One wrote the letter and one didn’t. Who do you ask to interpret it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/39 "2011-10-19T23:53:17Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Are you under the impression that Lyndon LaRouche is on the left?:eek: Is Paul on the right? LaRouche [does have a background in Marxist politics, in the '60s and early '70s.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche#1960s) Then he suffered a Sea Change, into something Rich and Strange. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153/40 "2011-10-19T23:57:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It’s an excuse for reading the document and words from people instrumental in it’s creation in order to gain an understanding of their intentions. > > Is that wrong? I mean say you find a letter and can’t read it. You’re with two people. One wrote the letter and one didn’t. Who do you ask to interpret it? Did you miss this post? > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > What the Founding Fathers thought is not an argument. It’s like citing the Bible. People cherry pick whatever quote they want to make a point without showing any understanding of the whole. Selective reading indeed! Everything’s open to interpretation. Everyone I’ve met who claims to believe in a “strict interpretation” of the constitution and/or the FF’s intentions is picking and choosing things and interpreting them in the way they choose. Heck, I did that when I was a young and foolish libertarian. And even if we could unambiguously divine the FF’s intent, so what? They weren’t omniscient. Even if we agree that they created the best possible government for their time, things have changed. It’s ridiculous to cling to some glorious past, and even more so when that glorious past is totally made up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-ron-paul/600153.md?page=3)