# What's wrong with Russell Wilson? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [January 2, 2024, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489 "2024-01-02T11:27:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/21 "2024-01-02T23:11:56Z")
As others have said he was very reliant on scrambling and he isn’t as mobile as he used to be. The Broncos also gave him a contract which not only is he failing to perform to but also guarantees his 2025 salary if he isn’t cut immedaitely after the season ends or he is injured at that time. Wilson’s decline started while he was in Seattle most notably in his last season but many put that down to coming back too early from breaking a finger. It also seems to be the case that Wilson and Pete Carrol fell out, Wilson wanted to be allowed to “cook” (Dominate the offensive with a much more pass oriented game) and felt Pete was restricting him from showing all his skills. Wilson’s first season in Denver was under Nathaniel Hacket a rookie OC. He seemed ot allow Wilson to do whatever he wanted, he had his own office away from the rest of the team and his personnal “staff” were given access to the facilities when Hacket gave him free reign to “cook” he pretty much burnt the house down. Hacket was sacked and Peynton brought in. This season Wilson has thrown less and his throws have been shorter more like his time in Seattle, this goes against Peyntons normal QB driven system. So another reason for Russ getting cut (he is being bench to ensure he can be cut) is Wilson is unable to play in a Payton style offence. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/22 "2024-01-02T23:50:17Z")
> [@Jegpeg](#): > > So another reason for Russ getting cut (he is being bench to ensure he can be cut) is Wilson is unable to play in a Payton style offence. I’m not sure about this, but an interesting story related to this… At one point Seattle made a trade with the New Orleans Saints, trading away center Max Unger and receiving tight end Jimmy Graham. Graham was one of the top receiving TEs in the league, playing more like a pure wide receiver who just happened to be very big and strong. One of the reasons for this was that Seattle wanted to give Russell Wilson another weapon to throw to. Graham struggled in Seattle. He didn’t suck, but he wasn’t nearly as effective. One reason is because Seattle expected their tight ends (and wide receivers) to do a lot of blocking. Despite his size, and the fact that TEs are something of a hybrid between a lineman and a receiver, Graham hated to block. It made him not as valuable to the team. But another issue was that when he was in New Orleans, Sean Payton and quarterback Drew Brees operated an offense like clockwork. They could set up a play and then Jimmy knew where to be at what time and the ball would be there. He could almost do it blindfolded. It was like a machine. Seattle, and in particular, Russell Wilson, they didn’t work that way. It was more like jazz. Russell would scramble around and improvise and do some crazy crap that often worked, but his receivers had to be flexible and just kind of know where and how to get open when things broke down, as they often did. (Part of the issue too was that Seattle usually had a bad offensive line, especially when Max Unger was gone in the trade for Graham.) Jimmy just didn’t fit into that system very well. (And this was despite the fact that by all reports, he and Russell had great chemistry and a solid friendship, Jimmy was even at Russell’s wedding.) So given all that… Maybe. It could be that the same problem Jimmy Graham had being a receiver for Russell Wilson might be a problem that Sean Payton had coaching Russell Wilson. The irony being that Drew Brees was one of Russell’s biggest role models, and he tried so hard to be like him. > **[Russell Wilson names Drew Brees his favorite NFL player ever](https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/20/russell-wilson-names-drew-brees-his-favorite-nfl-player-ever/)** > > The Seattle Seahawks won’t get a matchup between NFC Pro Bowl quarterbacks Russell Wilson and Drew Brees on Sunday, as Brees will be out for roughly six weeks following a thumb injury sustain… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/23 "2024-01-03T16:07:09Z")
Wilson’s numbers this year look really good, though. Whatever his age, he completes two out of three passes, rarely gets picked off, and leads a decent offense. The reason Denver is only 8-8 ain’t the offense Wilson has been running, it’s the defense. If you stuck this season’s stat line in the middle of his career, it would not look at all out of place. He is definitely not worth the money he’s being paid, but Wilson can absolutely still help a team win games. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/24 "2024-01-03T17:31:52Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I wonder how much the coaching plays a role in this. Did the coaches in Seattle just have a better understanding of Wilson’s strengths, and how best to use them, than those in Denver? An 8 year old has a better understanding of coaching quarterbacks than Denver. The key was when Wilson insisted that he be a dropback quarterback. Seattle said, “We ain’t playing this game with him.” and traded him before the rest of the league realized there would be issues. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/25 "2024-01-03T17:38:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wilson’s numbers this year look really good, though. Whatever his age, he completes two out of three passes, rarely gets picked off, and leads a decent offense. The reason Denver is only 8-8 ain’t the offense Wilson has been running, it’s the defense. I don’t disagree. Earlier this year when Sean Payton griped about Russell Wilson being the problem, despite Wilson having good stats, it seemed like BS to me. I mean, I’d watched Wilson making last-minute heroics and came just short of winning a game right before these comments. To my eye, the defense was the problem. > **[Broncos' head coach Sean Payton blames Russell Wilson for team's collapse](https://www.marca.com/en/nfl/denver-broncos/2023/09/20/650a65c722601dc6468b4598.html)** > > Denver Broncos quarterback Russell Wilson has started the 2023 season strong, but his head coach, Sean Payton, remains unhappy. In their latest game against Washington, the Broncos And then a week after Payton publicly blamed Wilson, they gave up 70 points to the Dolphins. Again, it didn’t look like Wilson was the problem. I’m now seeing reports that Payton was biased against Wilson from the start. > **[Examining factors that led to Broncos benching Russell Wilson and what's...](https://www.nfl.com/news/examining-factors-that-led-to-broncos-benching-russell-wilson-and-what-s-potenti)** > > NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reviews the events that led to the Denver Broncos benching quarterback Russell Wilson this past week. > Payton was wary of Wilson during his interview with the Broncos before they hired him last offseason, sources say. While he spoke in the interview of how to help turn him into a championship QB and how to fix him, he privately wasn’t as sure it could be done. By taking the job, he committed to trying. It has not worked. That article does point to something that I’d alluded to before, which I noticed myself as a fan watching him for a decade. > When players watched film during the week of the past few games, they saw an endless string of open players that Wilson wasn’t finding in time. Sure, the big-time plays in the fourth quarter were there, but finding the open guy in rhythm was an issue. Players saw it, and privately discussed it among themselves, sources say. I said before that he’s not great at those quick passes, checkdowns, and intermediate passes. This is how Wilson plays. I also said before that Sean Payton ran an offense with Drew Brees in New Orleans where plays went off like a carefully choreographed piece of machinery. Wilson doesn’t play that way. “Finding the open guy in rhythm” sounds a lot like the old Saints offense. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/26 "2024-01-03T18:48:25Z")
This year, nothing is really wrong with Wilson, as far as I can see. His passer rating is 98, which puts him in the top ten (excluding QBs with high ratings because they only played a few games). I don’t understand Denver’s frustration unless it’s a case of “we gave away the store to get a superstar, and got better-than-average instead”. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/27 "2024-01-03T18:58:55Z")
He’s not a bad QB, but he’s clearly not what he used to be, and he’s only getting older and will probably be a little worse next year, and worse the year after. They needed a superstar now to make it worthwhile. If everything was clicking into place for Denver and they had a shot next year, it would be different. But he’s not their QB of the future, so it’s best to cut the losses sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/28 "2024-01-03T19:01:14Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > I don’t understand Denver’s frustration unless it’s a case of “we gave away the store to get a superstar, and got better-than-average instead”. That’s not sufficient? If their goal is to win championships, they need value for their money or need to spend it elsewhere ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/29 "2024-01-03T19:04:06Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > I don’t understand Denver’s frustration unless it’s a case of “we gave away the store to get a superstar, and got better-than-average instead”. But that’s exactly what it is. Denver (IMO) thought they had the pieces for a championship run and just needed the star quarterback. So they sold the future (and part of the present) for that QB, but alas. ETA : Ninja’d by @Great_Antibob. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/30 "2024-01-03T19:06:00Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Wilson would have had two rings if he had just handed the ball to Lynch at the end of that Super Bowl game against the Patriots. I thought that play was called by Pete Carrol. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/31 "2024-01-03T19:11:13Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I thought that play was called by Pete Carrol. Yes, he made the decision, gave it to the OC Darell Bevell, and Bevell passed on the play to Wilson. As a Seahawks fan I can tell you that this is a moment the fans have overanalyzed and tortured themselves with for a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/32 "2024-01-03T19:13:06Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yes, he made the decision, gave it to the OC Darell Bevell, and Bevell passed on the play to Wilson. > > As a Seahawks fan I can tell you that this is a moment the fans have overanalyzed have tortured themselves with for a decade . Agree. But I do blame Wilson for forcing the pass. He had time to throw it away and try another play. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/33 "2024-01-03T19:14:06Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But I do blame Wilson for forcing the pass. Oh yes. The game plan didn’t include an interception to the best of my knowledge. And it’s another example of Russ trying to make something out of nothing and not being pragmatic. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/34 "2024-01-03T19:15:52Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As a Seahawks fan I can tell you that this is a moment the fans have overanalyzed and tortured themselves with for a decade. Tell about it. The Seahawks are “my” team and I still can’t stand remembering that moment. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/35 "2024-01-03T19:16:45Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > And it’s another example of Russ trying to make something out of nothing and not being pragmatic. It’s call the “Pink Top” play. If the pass is not there, you throw it to the woman in the pink top in the third row. Not a joke, it was an actual play call from the LA Avengers. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/36 "2024-01-03T19:17:28Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > And it’s another example of Russ trying to make something out of nothing and not being pragmatic It’s what made him good. Except when it didn’t. He had a drive down the field that would have been legendary, if not for how it ended. I can’t imagine the stress of each play with seconds left. I’ll cut him some slack, but still… ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/37 "2024-01-03T19:24:49Z")
Live by the improv, die by the improv. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/38 "2024-01-03T19:38:38Z")
Wilson said he was benched because he wouldn’t renegotiate his contract to downgrade the injury clause which would have paid him mucho millions if he was injured while playing. Is there any reason to doubt what he said? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/39 "2024-01-03T19:45:00Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Is there any reason to doubt what he said? It matches what was rumored even before he said anything. It passes the smell test for me. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489/40 "2024-01-03T20:08:15Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I thought that play was called by Pete Carrol. In 1997 Pete Carroll said that he would deliver a Super Bowl trophy to New England. He fulfilled that promise 17 years later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-russell-wilson/995489.md?page=3)