# What's wrong with saying "All lives matter"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366 "2015-08-09T04:56:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/21 "2015-08-09T11:58:00Z")
There is a prevailing feeling amongst many blacks that their lives do NOT matter - not to the police, not to the criminal justice system, not to the government, and not to many of the white people they meet every day. So tell me, and them, how “all lives matter” addresses or fixes any of this? ETA: I am stunned that that was what the above poster got out of that analogy/metaphor. Seriously stunned. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/22 "2015-08-09T11:58:53Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re going with the “Daddy, it’s not fair” argument? Seriously? > > Didn’t your own father disabuse you of the notion that life is supposed to be fair? Mine taught me that when life is not fair you are supposed to stand up and fight for what’s right. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/23 "2015-08-09T11:59:19Z")
Only if all life matters does the 2 black lives (or black lives) matter. Both have to be or nothing matters. That is the bigger picture, many people do not see the bigger picture and thus think you are dismissing their statement when you are supporting it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/24 "2015-08-09T11:59:37Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, the implication of shouting down “all lives matter” is that some lives are more equal than others. Only if you’re determined and make a conscious effort to misunderstand the whole thing or what it’s about. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/25 "2015-08-09T11:59:40Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > So what are you saying here? That black people are not at all victimized by the police, and want preferential treatment anyway? I don’t think that black people want special treatment; rather, it’s white liberals who think that black people should get special treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/26 "2015-08-09T12:01:57Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I don’t think that black people want special treatment; rather, it’s white liberals who think that black people should get special treatment. Which white liberal has ever said that? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/27 "2015-08-09T12:03:19Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Mine taught me that when life is not fair you are supposed to stand up and fight for what’s right. You little crusader, you. Meanwhile, back in the real world… ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/28 "2015-08-09T12:04:35Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Which white liberal has ever said that? The ones who have a problem with “all lives matter”. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/29 "2015-08-09T12:19:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The ones who have a problem with “all lives matter”. There’s a lot of them. You shouldn’t have a problem finding one instance of a liberal implying in any way that they want preferential treatment for black people instead of equal treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/30 "2015-08-09T12:24:02Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > [There’s a pretty good explanation in this reddit thread.](https://np.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/3du1qm/eli5_why_is_it_so_controversial_when_someone_says/ct8pei1) That really is pretty good. I’m going to remember that one and offer it up to those who might benefit from hearing it… ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/31 "2015-08-09T12:30:39Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re going with the “Daddy, it’s not fair” argument? Seriously? > > Didn’t your own father disabuse you of the notion that life is supposed to be fair? So, wait, you would be fine with the hypothetical situation? One child in the family isn’t fed, says it isn’t fair, and your response is “Well, life isn’t fair.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/32 "2015-08-09T13:03:37Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > There’s a lot of them. You shouldn’t have a problem finding one instance of a liberal implying in any way that they want preferential treatment for black people instead of equal treatment. Preferential treatment in university admissions, and preferential treatment in hiring practices for city police/fire services, to name two. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/33 "2015-08-09T13:24:10Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, the problem is it dilutes the message they’re trying to get across. I wish though they’d also target the message that Black Lives Matter to young black men themselves in an effort to reduce the frightening number of black-on-black killings. The press usually completely ignore this though. These black lives matter too but you’d be hard put to find any outrage about it in the media. Maybe there would be fewer black-on-black killings if the police did their jobs and protected black communities. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/34 "2015-08-09T13:40:32Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, the problem is it dilutes the message they’re trying to get across. I wish though they’d also target the message that Black Lives Matter to young black men themselves in an effort to reduce the frightening number of black-on-black killings. The press usually completely ignore this though. These black lives matter too but you’d be hard put to find any outrage about it in the media. Black on black killings are criminal acts perpetrated by criminals. They are reported like any other criminal acts. We expect criminals to commit murder. That’s what they do. We don’t expect the police to murder people, that’s why it’s big news when they do. This whole “Waaah! Nobody talks about black on black killings!” is a smokescreen, and a mighty stupid one at that. When you say “all lives matter”, you’re not as big an asshole as one who says “blue lives matter”, but you’re in the same league. What you’re saying is “there’s nothing special about you. Yeah, sure, a lot of YOUR people are getting murdered by police but hey, every once in a while it happens to one of US, too. I won’t care about YOUR problem so long as we can come up with anecdotal evidence that less than 100% of the victims are one of YOU.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/35 "2015-08-09T13:52:43Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > [There’s a pretty good explanation in this reddit thread.](https://np.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/3du1qm/eli5_why_is_it_so_controversial_when_someone_says/ct8pei1) I am sorry, this is mean, but _that is so fucking, fucking, fucking obvious_. Yet poster after poster in that thread is saying “OMG you’ve shown me the light! I get it now! I’ve completely changed my mind!” Like, how do people _talk_ if they don’t immediately grasp this on first hearing anything about it? How do they ever successfully understand any verbal communication if they need something like this “explained”? I’m sorry, this is not constructive. I’m just very, very frustrated dealing with people on this. I don’t know whether to conceive of this as maliciousness or incompetence. Neither makes me feel good about humanity. Anyway I’m glad to have seen that explanation on reddit, I’ll use it in the future since it’s so effective for some dad blamed reason. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/36 "2015-08-09T13:59:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > When you say “all lives matter”, you’re not as big an asshole as one who says “blue lives matter”, but you’re in the same league. What you’re saying is “there’s nothing special about you. Yeah, sure, a lot of YOUR people are getting murdered by police but hey, every once in a while it happens to one of US, too. I won’t care about YOUR problem so long as we can come up with anecdotal evidence that less than 100% of the victims are one of YOU.” That’s not quite fair: that’s not what everyone who says “all lives matter” _means_ to say. They may intend something else by it, like for example that black lives matter neither _because of_ nor _in spite of_ the fact that they’re black but because they’re lives—because we’re all human beings. But what people _hear_ them saying is something like the quoted interpretation. There’s nothing _inherently_ wrong with saying “all lives matter,” and if the phrase had arisen in a different context or acquired different connotations, it might not be at all controversial. But that happens a lot with words and phrases: they acquire a meaning, deliberately or inadvertently, that goes beyond the face value. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/37 "2015-08-09T14:01:05Z")
It ignores all context of the history of race relations in this country and of the current dialogue. As others have said, it’s a way to imply that blacks are already treated equally so they should shut up or at least protest when white young men get killed. Of course, when the young white Zachary Hammond was killed, “black lives matter” people were some of the first to point it out, and also how the “all lives matter” folks didn’t care about it because that would hurt the latter’s narrative that police are just doing their jobs when they kill black people. I see black lives matter supporters on Twitter constantly pointing out police misconduct, no matter the race of the police and the victims. All lives can’t matter until black lives matter. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/38 "2015-08-09T14:20:02Z")
“All lives matter” is a way to oversimplify the discourse by taking race out of it. People–especially white people–are very reluctant to talk about race. And people–especially black people–are tired of being represented by elected officials who share this aversion. Bernie Sanders talks a good game. Lots of black folks (including myself) want to jump on his bandwagon. But you can’t call yourself a socialist and be wimpy when it comes to discussions of race. Over the past year or so, President Obama has shown us how it can be done. Folks want this kind of candor to continue. We don’t want to go back to the days of pandering to Middle America’s delusions. Hillary has been put on notice. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/39 "2015-08-09T14:25:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Preferential treatment in university admissions, and preferential treatment in hiring practices for city police/fire services, to name two. Sooo, what you are saying is that you believe that “Black lives matter” is not about cops, but about affirmative action? That’s what you believe? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/40 "2015-08-09T14:32:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Bernie Sanders talks a good game. Lots of black folks (including myself) want to jump on his bandwagon. But you can’t call yourself a socialist and be wimpy when it comes to discussions of race. Relevant to this, I just found out Sanders has hired a black woman who is a supporter of Black Lives Matter as his national press secretary. > **[Bernie Sanders’ Campaign Adds Young Black Woman As New Public Face](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/evanmcsan/bernie-sanders-campaign-adds-young-black-woman-as-new-public)** > > After meeting with Bernie Sanders about criminal justice and Black Lives Matter, Bernie Sanders has hired Symone Sanders as national press secretary. Meanwhile: more protests in Seattle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366.md?page=3)