# What's wrong with the ID4 Computer Virus Thing?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 15, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495 "2008-05-15T23:05:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/21 "2008-05-16T06:03:49Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
Maybe the computer on the alien ship had some kind of Earth language translation program of it’s own. The captured alien was able to comunicate by manipulating Data’s vocal cords as well project it’s thoughts into the President’s mind.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think you would really need to understand a human language in order to be able to design a trojan that works on human computers. You just need to know the architecture of its processor. This, AFAIK, is not determined by the language of the processor’s designer.
But anyway, if it’s true that Goldblum’s character was supposed to have been able to write the trojan from scratch in a couple of hours, then that is very silly. It would take years, I’m sure.
-FrL-
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### Author:  [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/22 "2008-05-16T06:18:02Z")
The climax of one of Arthur C. Clarke’s less-brilliant novels hinges on pretty much the same concept, except the target in this case is even LESS likely, I would say, to be vulnerable to our computer viruses than the aliens from _Independence Day_.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/23 "2008-05-16T07:04:15Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock]
But anyway, if it’s true that Goldblum’s character was supposed to have been able to write the trojan from scratch in a couple of hours, then that is very silly. It would take years, I’m sure.
[/QUOTE]
And the only basis he would have to write it on would be the individual fighter, which could have any number of differences from a mothership. Writing a virus for one gives you no certainty at all that you’ll be able to use the same thing against an entirely different style of craft.
True, if they’re all based on the same basic operating system, there might be some sort of universal “reboot” command that’s pretty much independent of navigation and engine/hardware management software, but it’s unlikely that there would be some sort of remote function that could be called from an external source which could access that, nor allow you to install an application that would do so. Obviously, that’s the reason you would need a security hole, but again, short of the aliens having no concept of hacking in their culture, it’s infinitely unlikely that the mothership would be unprotected, and very unlikely that it would be vulnerable in the same ways as a small fighter.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/24 "2008-05-16T13:57:38Z")
[QUOTE=bubastis]
The virus was written by Jeff Goldblum in like, an hour.
[/QUOTE]
While drunk on his ass.
A clever writer with some actual knowledge of science (or even familiarity with the history or written science fiction) could have worked out all the bits of stupidity on this script. (I wonder if Roland Emmerich has ever read a whole book without pictures in his life.) Worse than the bad science is the plain old bad writing. I hate seeing good actors have to perform such stupid cliches.
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### Author:  [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/25 "2008-05-16T14:50:16Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin]
While drunk on his ass.
[/QUOTE]
Well, that explains it. Clearly, he was just drunk enough to be at [Ballmer Peak](http://www.xkcd.com/323/).
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/26 "2008-05-16T14:55:20Z")
I suppose it’s possible.
In the same way that it’s possible to program a virus on an ENIAC using what you’ve learned from the GPS system in a Lincoln Navigator and using that virus to take down General Motors’ mainframe.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/27 "2008-05-16T14:58:09Z")
Were the aliens not using our satellite technology to coordinate their attacks, or am I misremembering? If they figured out our protocols it means their communications are not fundamentally different enough that conceptually we would not be able to interface with theirs.
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/28 "2008-05-16T15:17:46Z")
[QUOTE=gotpasswords]
Are you and I the only people here that wrestled with serial cables about 20 years ago? 😛
Is it 9-pin or 25-pin?
How many data bits?
How many stop bits?
Is the parity even, odd or none?
Are DTE and DCE reversed?
etc…
And that’s with two devices that were invented on the same planet by the same species.
And don’t get me started on the multitude of ways dial-up modems could be mis-configured…
[/QUOTE]
More basic–do the Aliens use base 10 enumeration? :dubious:
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/29 "2008-05-16T15:20:42Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
More basic–do the Aliens use base 10 enumeration? :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
How would that make for an obstacle to designing an interface between one of our devices and one of theirs?
-FrL-
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### Author:  [@Duhkecco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duhkecco)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/30 "2008-05-16T15:24:01Z")
I haven’t seen the movie, so I looked up the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_%28film%29). Is the following correct?
> [@](#):
>
> On July 2, a mammoth alien mothership enters orbit around Earth and deploys several dozen saucer-shaped “destroyer” spacecraft, each 15 miles in width.
15 miles?! It looks big in the trailer but I didn’t realize that it was that big. How big is the mothership?
Also, is there any indication how far the aliens had to travel to reach the Earth?
It just seems that their technology was mind-numbingly more advanced than ours, to the point that it’s absurd to think that humans could understand it well enough to develop a successful virus attack.
(But, of course, the aliens waited around for a couple of days just to give the Earthlings a sporting chance …)
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/31 "2008-05-16T15:27:57Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock]
How would that make for an obstacle to designing an interface between one of our devices and one of theirs?
-FrL-
[/QUOTE]
If we don’t know what numerical base system they use, how could we even begin?
For that matter, do they use binary? Or even digital?
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/32 "2008-05-16T15:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
If we don’t know what numerical base system they use, how could we even begin?
For that matter, do they use binary? Or even digital?
[/QUOTE]
“Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.”
Either Frylock is being deliberately obtuse, or he doesn’t understand enough basic math (forget about computer science) to understand the answer to his question.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/33 "2008-05-16T16:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=lissener]
> [@garygnu](#):
>
> It’s as implausible as Martians never having ever been exposed to bacteria of any kind.
Um, dude, Native Americans? Smallpox? etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.?
It’s actually one of the least implausible movie _deus ex machinas_ I can think of.
[/QUOTE]
Um, dude, Native Americans and Europeans are the same species, evolved on the same planet. Martians and humans (or cattle) are neither.
It’s pretty implausible that Martians were never exposed to bacteria on Mars, but it is wildly implausible that a virus that developed on earth would affect them. Probably even more implausible than writing a computer virus for a system you have never seen.
Wells didn’t know anything about DNA, so the plot hole in _War of the Worlds_ is forgivable. But even a basic familiarity with DNA shows how unlikely such an infection would be. Same with computers - anyone who has done more with computers than go to FaceBook knows a computer virus as described is nearly as ridiculous.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/34 "2008-05-16T16:56:03Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock]
How would that make for an obstacle to designing an interface between one of our devices and one of theirs?
-FrL-
[/QUOTE]
That would be show-stopper. Dead in the water if you don’t know their numeric base.
Why do geeks celebrate Halloween on Christmas Day?
_Say what?_
Oct 31 equals Dec 25.
_Huh?_
31 in an octal (base-8) count equals 25 in our standard decimal (base-10) system. If you don’t know the base, it’s pretty much hopeless.
Humans natively like base-ten because we have ten fingers and thumbs. Most cartoon characters prefer octal because the animators were lazy and only gave them eight fingers and thumbs. If your aliens have only three fingers per hand, they probably count in base-6.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/35 "2008-05-16T17:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic]
Were the aliens not using our satellite technology to coordinate their attacks, or am I misremembering? If they figured out our protocols it means their communications are not fundamentally different enough that conceptually we would not be able to interface with theirs.
[/QUOTE]
You remember correctly. And that was really stupid in itself. (Especially since the “coordination” consisted of all going off at the same time, using a clock which Jeff Goldblum was also able to figure out. They could have just synchronized their watches.)
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/36 "2008-05-16T17:02:53Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan]
It’s pretty implausible that Martians were never exposed to bacteria on Mars, but it is wildly implausible that a virus that developed on earth would affect them. Probably even more implausible than writing a computer virus for a system you have never seen.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe they wiped out all their microorganisms long ago. Never mind compatible DNA; there might be Earth bacteria that would simply eat Martian tissue.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/37 "2008-05-16T17:07:06Z")
[QUOTE=Duhkecco]
I haven’t seen the movie, so I looked up the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_%28film%29). Is the following correct?15 miles?! It looks big in the trailer but I didn’t realize that it was that big. How big is the mothership?
[/QUOTE]
The mothership would have to be something like 100 miles in diameter – which means that it should be easily visible in the sky, even at the distance of the Moon (unless, I guess, it’s got a really low albedo).
The basic premise about the aliens actually wasn’t bad – that their whole civilization lived in the mother ship, endlessly travelling from star to star, stripping planets of the resources they wanted and then moving on. You could do something with that.
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### Author:  [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/38 "2008-05-16T17:20:08Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
“Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.”
Either Frylock is being deliberately obtuse, or he doesn’t understand enough basic math (forget about computer science) to understand the answer to his question.
[/QUOTE]
On the base-10 enumeration, this may be a bit unfair; presumably, **Frylock** had in mind the situation where the aliens, like us, may use base 10 for everyday non-computer activities, display and input of quantities on the computer, etc., but where most actual internal computer representation of integers is done in base 2 (or, equivalently, some power thereof). In which case, why _would_ it matter what the aliens use for their external representations of numbers?
(I’d agree that the OP is fairly naive in its underestimation of the astronomical magnitude of the difficulty of the task here, perhaps through a lack of appreciation for just how many arbitrary and afterwards inscrutable choices go into the design of a complex computer architecture at all kinds of different levels, but that’s no huge mark against it; it was written _specifically_ to acknowledge that, and in the hopes of being so educated as to clear it up.)
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/39 "2008-05-16T17:28:07Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin]
Never mind compatible DNA; there might be Earth bacteria that would simply eat Martian tissue.
[/QUOTE]
Oh come on - any bacteria that evolved to feed on Martian tissues would have starved to death long ago. How do we even know that the Martians would be carbon-based?
Humans can’t even digest cellulose, and that grew up on the same planet as us.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [May 16, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-the-id4-computer-virus-thing/449495/40 "2008-05-16T17:30:37Z")
[QUOTE=gotpasswords]
31 in an octal (base-8) count equals 25 in our standard decimal (base-10) system. If you don’t know the base, it’s pretty much hopeless.
[/QUOTE]
I doubt this. I’m suprised if it’s difficult to figure out what base a number system is in given a large enough sample size. Just look to see how many different symbols for digits there are. (Of course who knows what wild and crazy symbol systems aliens might come up with, but its quite plausible to think that many of them would come up with systems notated in a way similar enough to our own for us to figure out.)\*
I’m also suprised if knowing the _aliens’_ number system has much to do with understanding the architecture of their _electronics_. How much relevance is our base ten system to understanding the binary structure of our electronics?
-FrL-
\*ETA: And you could figure out what order the digits belong in by looking to see which additions of digits result in a carry.
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