# What's your interpretation of a sphere "spinning clockwise"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 26, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397 "2024-03-26T16:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/1 "2024-03-26T16:07:05Z")
Spam email from some trivia website: “Which Two Planets in Our Solar System Spin Clockwise?” My mind: Ermm, clocks are circles, planets are spheres. We viewing this planet from the south pole or the north pole? Does “planet spinning clockwise” conjure up a clear image for you, or does it hit you as it did me, as a meaningless construct? ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/2 "2024-03-26T16:14:34Z")
I would interpret it as viewing from the top (N pole), but in the grand scheme of things it is pretty much a meaningless construct. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/3 "2024-03-26T16:19:40Z")
> [@pjd](#): > > I would interpret it as viewing from the top (N pole) But which is the top (or north), and why? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/4 "2024-03-26T16:22:52Z")
I would think of it as being viewed from above. In the case of a planet, it would be viewing from the north pole. Maybe that’s my northern-hemisphere living bias showing Apologies to antipodean board members. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/5 "2024-03-26T16:32:11Z")
We make assumptions about what is ‘up’ and ‘down’ in our solar system relative to the axis of the sun by assuming it has a north pole on it’s axis, co-oriented with the north pole of the earth, and when viewed from the plane of the ecliptic the planets and sun appear to be spinning one direction or the other relative to each other that can be called clockwise or counter-clockwise. But it’s all relative motion based on assumptions. I assume the earth spins counter-clockwise based on the usual conventions. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/6 "2024-03-26T16:58:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I assume the earth spins counter-clockwise based on the usual conventions. Agree with this, and I would look at all the planets from the top down, the top being above the plane of the ecliptic from Earth’s north pole. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/7 "2024-03-26T17:08:03Z")
I always thought a neat novelty item to have would be a globe of the earth with the south pole on top and all the text upside-down. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/8 "2024-03-26T17:21:12Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But which is the top (or north), and why? It’s the one from where it looks like it’s spinning clockwise! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/9 "2024-03-26T20:41:14Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > > [@TriPolar](#): > > > > I assume the earth spins counter-clockwise based on the usual conventions. > > Agree with this, and I would look at all the planets from the top down, the top being above the plane of the ecliptic from Earth’s north pole. Yup. ‘Top’ and ‘above’ are also assumptions based on the earth’s and/or sun’s axis having a north pole that we consider to be their tops. Without those assumptions it gets really complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/10 "2024-03-26T20:54:31Z")
I know that it’s meaningless, but I also know that what they intended was “as viewed from Solar North”. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/11 "2024-03-26T21:38:26Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I always thought a neat novelty item to have would be a globe of the earth with the south pole on top and all the text upside-down. Here you go. > **[Upside down globe](https://www.landerandmay.com/upside-down-globe.html)** > > How different the world looks this way up. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/12 "2024-03-26T21:40:10Z")
I’ll argue “meaningless” is much too strong a term. IMO … The OP’s cited sentence is clearly _ambiguous_. That doesn’t make it meaningless. It just means some additional context must be applied to understand it. No different than saying “On Main Street, the Walmart will be on your left”. That assumes e.g. you’re coming from one direction, not the opposite direction. But depending on who’s talking to who, one of those directions is far more plausible than the other. You already have the context that you understand English words. Absent that, its just gibberish. And you have the context that in colloquial speech, “north” and “up” are loosely equated. And that humans generally prefer to look down on things, not up at them. In the case of something written on paper, “up” is coming out of the paper towards the observer, while down is through the paper and away from the observer, etc. If you know anything of the naming and directional conventions of modern astronomy, that completely removes the ambiguity by convention. So yes, ambiguous. But far from meaningless. I’ll also quibble with this bit: > [@AHunter3](#): > > Ermm, clocks are circles, planets are spheres. The circle/sphere distinction is incorrect. If you look at a conventional analog clock from the back side, the hands move in a counter-clockwise direction. It is only because you assume the context of looking at it from the front that you think you know what the word “clockwise” represents. Speaking precisely about any rotation involves defining an axis and defining one end of that axis as the special reference one. There is zero difference in that between a spinning disk, a sphere, or even a 4D hypersphere. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/13 "2024-03-26T21:47:33Z")
But if we’re defining the frame of reference to be solar north , there’s only one planet with a clockwise rotation: Venus. Seven have a counter-clockwise rotation, and Uranus just keeps rolling along. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/14 "2024-03-26T22:35:48Z")
Quite right. Which is why astronomers have an extra special convention for Uranus. Yeah, they have to stretch a point to make it all fit in, but with enough lube, they’re good. Nobody knows what Uranus thinks of this. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/15 "2024-03-26T22:39:27Z")
I suppose one could say rotating in the opposite direction that the sun rotates. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/16 "2024-03-26T22:53:57Z")
Astronomers talk about **prograde** and **retrograde** rotation; I don’t think they normally talk about “clockwise” or “anti-clockwise”. The Earth (unlike Venus) is rotating prograde. I suppose that, grossly speaking, if (by definition? but what about the Southern Hemisphere?) the Sun moves clockwise when viewed from the Earth, the Earth could be said to be rotating counterclockwise? But I do not see the point of this line of reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/17 "2024-03-26T22:57:44Z")
How is prograde and retrograde defined, other than by reference to solar north? I think the Sun also has counter-clockwise rotation, seen from solar north? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/18 "2024-03-26T23:10:21Z")
Prograde is when the handedness (CW vs CCW) of the body’s rotation about its axis is the same as the handedness of its orbit around whatever it’s orbiting. Implicitly when viewed from the same POV. Retrograde of course is the opposite. Most orbiting bodies that rotate at all rotate prograde. The same sort of momentum that got them orbiting at all also got them spinning on their axis the same way. Explaining retrograde rotation usually involved collisions, captures, etc. Something _really_ big had to have happened to Venus to have it do what it does. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/19 "2024-03-26T23:13:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think the Sun also has counter-clockwise rotation, seen from solar north? Solar north is defined as the direction from which the Sun has counterclockwise rotation. Just like Earthly north is defined as the direction from which Earth has counterclockwise rotation. And Uranus is close to sideways, but it’s still slightly off a perfect 90º angle. And the direction in which its off is the retrograde direction. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397/20 "2024-03-26T23:13:40Z")
Yes; at least in this Solar system and for major planets, I think there is no confusion that, looking down on the Solar system from Solar north (i.e. Earth’s north, we all know which half of the universe we are talking about) prograde motion is counterclockwise. > [@Chronos](#): > > And Uranus is close to sideways, but it’s still slightly off a perfect 90º angle. And the direction in which its off is the retrograde direction. It’s _orbiting_ prograde but is _rotating_ retrograde. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-interpretation-of-a-sphere-spinning-clockwise/999397.md?page=2)