# What's your opinion on circumcision? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582 "2007-01-26T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/161 "2007-01-30T16:22:52Z")
[QUOTE=spazurek] given the irrefutable facts that it’s not beneficial in any measurable way [/QUOTE] That’s not an irrefutable fact. There are studies which, in fact, give measurable percentages of incidence of penile cancer, HPV infection, HIV, etc in circumcised vs. uncircumcised males. That the medical establishment does not believe these benefits alone warrant a blanket reccommendation of the procedure in no way diminishes the fact that there are, by the very definition of the phrase, “measurable benefits”. ---
**Author:** ![spazurek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@spazurek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazurek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/162 "2007-01-30T16:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Jophiel] That’s not an irrefutable fact. There are studies which, in fact, give measurable percentages of incidence of penile cancer, HPV infection, HIV, etc in circumcised vs. uncircumcised males. That the medical establishment does not believe these benefits alone warrant a blanket reccommendation of the procedure in no way diminishes the fact that there are, by the very definition of the phrase, “measurable benefits”. [/QUOTE] Well I thought that on page 4 of this thread I’d be able to use short-hand, but here it is again: there is no evidence of a net benefit or harm from circumcision. Period. The medical discussion ends here. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/163 "2007-01-30T16:45:01Z")
[QUOTE=spazurek] Ok, my turn to rebut your characterization of my position. I probably haven’t been totally consistent in this thread, but yes, I am primarily interested in why it’s so commonly performed given the irrefutable facts that it’s not beneficial in any measurable way, is extremely painful, and very likely has a detrimental effect on function, however small; and, most importantly, the fact that it is a violation of the baby’s right to control his own body (a right which, except for medical necessity, is one of the most deeply-respected rights in this society; it’s precisely why sexualizing children is viewed so severely). What I cannot abide is any defense that takes the form ‘it’s what we do and it’s none of your business’. There are plenty of cultural/historical practices that are prohibited or at least highly frowned upon in this society. Given the facts I cite above, it’s just bizarre to me that circumcision is such a glaring exception. And it’s true that I don’t really give a crap what justification Judiasm provides for it. I have no interest in arguments that aren’t based on facts or logical principles. That your ancestors and family members believe the same as you, or that a set of scripture supports the practice, has no bearing on the argument. Either explain why it’s ok in light of the strong logical and factual arguments against it, or find some way to deal with my disapproval and my attempts to sway you and others toward my point of view. When someone’s rights are violated, it’s everyone’s business. [/QUOTE] Leaving aside the specific debate concerning your “irrefutable facts” (which are I would have thought are nothing of the sort, as has been pointed out repeatedly by many others), you seem quite contradictory here. In your OP you seemed primarially concerned that co-worker was _not really Jewish enough_ to engage in this ritual: > [@](#): > > The thing that pissed me off is that despite all this supposedly independent thinking she’s going to have her son circumcised because she and her husband Jewish; I couldn’t get her to define whether she actually has a spiritual faith in the Jewish tradition or if she means culturally Jewish. In any case, she almost never goes to synagogue, religion basically plays no part in her life, and she readily rejects all kinds of other Jewish traditions. So how can she justify this? Yet now you are saying you _don’t care at all_ about Judaism. In short, you now appear to hold that it would be _exactly the same to you_ is this co-worker went to synagogue each and every day, spoke Yiddish as her first language, planned to send her kids to Hebrew classes, and otherwise displayed every outward sign of Jewish faith. Her Jewishness appears to have been a total red herring on your part, as you would have been just as against her acts no matter how Jewish she was. ---
**Author:** ![spazurek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@spazurek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazurek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/164 "2007-01-30T17:10:05Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Leaving aside the specific debate concerning your “irrefutable facts” (which are I would have thought are nothing of the sort, as has been pointed out repeatedly by many others), you seem quite contradictory here. In your OP you seemed primarially concerned that co-worker was _not really Jewish enough_ to engage in this ritual: [/QUOTE] Huh? I’ve seen nothing in this thread to challenge any of these assertions. [QUOTE=Malthus] Yet now you are saying you _don’t care at all_ about Judaism. In short, you now appear to hold that it would be _exactly the same to you_ is this co-worker went to synagogue each and every day, spoke Yiddish as her first language, planned to send her kids to Hebrew classes, and otherwise displayed every outward sign of Jewish faith. Her Jewishness appears to have been a total red herring on your part, as you would have been just as against her acts no matter how Jewish she was. [/QUOTE] Fair enough, this is an example of me being inconsistent. Hopefully this will clarify: I can more easily accomodate a practice I would normally disapprove of if it’s done within the context of a deeply-rooted belief system that pervades a person’s life, although in this case it’s mostly out of pity and a sense that it’s a lost cause. But my co-worker is someone who prides herself on being iconoclastic and living the examined life, yet she decides that she’s just Jewish enough to chop off her boy’s foreskin. That’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/165 "2007-01-30T17:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=spazurek] Well I thought that on page 4 of this thread I’d be able to use short-hand, but here it is again: there is no evidence of a net benefit or harm from circumcision. Period. The medical discussion ends here. [/QUOTE] “No evidence of net benefit or harm” does not equal “There are no benefits”. As I noted, there are measurable benefits to neonatal circumcision. The fact that the AAP refuses to get off the fence regarding the procedure does not negate the lowered incidence in the conditions previously mentioned. Dr. Edgar Schoen recently published an [article](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/extract/118/1/385) in _Pediatrics_ calling the AAP to task for refusing to acknowledge the benefits of neonatal circumcision. The article is available by subscription, I’m afraid, but you can see the jist of his arguments [here](http://www.medicirc.org/summary.pdf) (PDF Warning). If I say “It ends here. Period” now, does that mean you can’t refute and I win? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/166 "2007-01-30T17:21:50Z")
[QUOTE=spazurek] Huh? I’ve seen nothing in this thread to challenge any of these assertions. Fair enough, this is an example of me being inconsistent. Hopefully this will clarify: I can more easily accomodate a practice I would normally disapprove of if it’s done within the context of a deeply-rooted belief system that pervades a person’s life, although in this case it’s mostly out of pity and a sense that it’s a lost cause. But my co-worker is someone who prides herself on being iconoclastic and living the examined life, yet she decides that she’s just Jewish enough to chop off her boy’s foreskin. That’s bullshit. [/QUOTE] I am not Jewish, but my understanding of circumcision in the Jewish culture is that it is one of the most _basic_ identifiers with that culture…that in fact being “just Jewish enough” is exactly enough to have it performed. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/167 "2007-01-30T17:37:46Z")
**spazurek** , you characterize circumcision as being “extremely painful.” While I have no doubt it would be without anaesthesia (which is how it used to be performed), the AAP now recommends that it should only be done with pain preventatives. I think it’s pretty standard to have a local anaesthetic preceded by Emla cream to numb the injection site. Not pain-free, certainly, but I think “extremely painful” is an exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/168 "2007-01-30T17:54:04Z")
**spazurek** , let me try to address your issues. As a decision for all parrents to make on behalf of their boys … the net benefits vs net risks/costs are an issue that there is no conclusive answer to. There is no convncing evidence that it has any effect on function either way (the only studies I’ve ever been able to find shows that circumcized males are more likely to have more liberal sexual practices and are less likely to have either pain during intercourse or trouble maintaining an erection than noncircumcized males, but that may be selection bias … see [here for one such study.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16925903&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)) Pain? As **C3** notes local anesthesia is used and you’d be amazed how well the sweet wine to suck on (the tradtional bris method) works and how fast a good moel is. So without solid evidence of significant harm it is reasonable for parents to decide on their child’s behalf. In America at least we interfer with parental rights only when we have evidence of significant harm being inflicted, not because we think it must be harmful or because we do not personally see a benefit. Just because I am not convinced of significant enough medical benefits does not mean that I have a right to impose that conclusion on others. And all the moreso when religion is involved. The state’s interest in protecting a child from his parents is real but is balanced against family rights and religious rights. The state has to be sure of a likely very significant harm before interfering with religious rights. In this case there is no such case to be made. Especially with a religious ritual that is fundamental to cultural identity. And you were without doubt incrediebly rude to your co-worker. ---
**Author:** ![spazurek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@spazurek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazurek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/169 "2007-01-30T19:58:59Z")
[QUOTE=C3] **spazurek** , you characterize circumcision as being “extremely painful.” While I have no doubt it would be without anaesthesia (which is how it used to be performed), the AAP now recommends that it should only be done with pain preventatives. I think it’s pretty standard to have a local anaesthetic preceded by Emla cream to numb the injection site. Not pain-free, certainly, but I think “extremely painful” is an exaggeration. [/QUOTE] Standard pain control according to the ob/gyn people at the University of Washington = sugar water. ---
**Author:** ![spazurek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@spazurek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazurek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/170 "2007-01-30T20:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] In America at least we interfer with parental rights only when we have evidence of significant harm being inflicted, not because we think it must be harmful or because we do not personally see a benefit. Just because I am not convinced of significant enough medical benefits does not mean that I have a right to impose that conclusion on others. [/QUOTE] Parents do not have a right to absolute control over their childrens’ bodies. Indeed, children have an absolute right to the integrity of their bodies unless there is an overriding interest to violate that right (i.e. if it would do more harm than good to the child or to the public to maintain bodily integrity). Circumcision is a violation of their bodily integrity with no overriding interest. Therefore it is morally wrong. Wrong enough to outlaw? Not in my view. Wrong enough to merit voicing my disagreement? Absolutely. (FWIW, not that it’s any of your business whether or not I was rude to my coworker – which is quite beside the point and a way to sidetrack the substantive debate by making it about my social graces, not something I’d defend anyway – she rather enjoyed the debate and we remain on friendly terms as always). ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/171 "2007-01-30T20:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=spazurek] Standard pain control according to the ob/gyn people at the University of Washington = sugar water. [/QUOTE] Cite (not one from an “intactivist” website)? Everything I can find right now says that pacifiers dipped in sugar water are recommended \*in addition \* to other pain relievers. Here is an article that says that 97% of residency directors taught the use of local or topical anaesthetic during circumcision. [AEGIS - Experts in Security, Investigations, Training And Consulting](http://www.aegis.com/news/re/2006/RE060724.html) ---
**Author:** ![spazurek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@spazurek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazurek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/172 "2007-01-30T20:49:53Z")
[QUOTE=C3] Cite (not one from an “intactivist” website)? Everything I can find right now says that pacifiers dipped in sugar water are recommended \*in addition \* to other pain relievers. Here is an article that says that 97% of residency directors taught the use of local or topical anaesthetic during circumcision. [AEGIS - Experts in Security, Investigations, Training And Consulting](http://www.aegis.com/news/re/2006/RE060724.html) [/QUOTE] I’ll yield on this one – it’s really a trivial issue and quite beside the point anyway. While the suffering that the babies go through compounds the badness, it’s not the main issue (to me). It’s about rights. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/173 "2007-01-30T21:15:57Z")
As an intact male I am very grateful towards my parents, although I’ve never actually talked to them about it…but my foreskin and I get along great, in fact you could say we are very close friends. Growing up, I did think my penis was a little odd sometimes – especially after watching porn and before being educated about circumcision – but I never felt bad about it, or ashamed, or anything like that. I’ve never met a girl who expressed negative feelings after seeing my nude member, although admittingly my sample rate is pretty low on that one. So, why anyone would wish to separate us is beyond my imagination and the idea of something remotely sharp getting down there with that intention makes me feel light headed and a little nauseated. Just skimming this thread is making me feel weak in the knees. I mean, wow! Just thinking about…it… :eek: For those who wish to seek an analogy how about testicle removal? We could remove just one ball! I mean, you can be a dad with just one testicle…and hey, it wouldn’t affect your sex life that much, right? Well, I would argue taking my foreskin away would do a lot more hurt than that, but even removing a testicle would be very bad IMO. There’s a lot of sensation down there and I don’t think anyone should be able to take that away without my permission. So…my view is, let the kid do it later if he wants to ‘not be embarassed’ or whatever BS you wish to trot out. As for female mutilation…oh god. That seems even worse in terms of physically repulsing me and I don’t even know why. But why would just removing the labia or the sensitive clitoral hood be so bad and not comparable to male circumcision? I don’t see why a girl couldn’t still orgasm without vaginal lips or why it would have such negative health effects. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/174 "2007-01-31T00:06:29Z")
> [@](#): > > **Jophiel** said: > And, at this point, I’m going to assume that the whole cost/benefit thing is beyond you. I can’t think of any more ways to explain it and yet you continue to make these comparisons and pretend that they’re valid. Costs of circumcision: removal of sensitive tissue that will have an effect on sexual pleasure, risk of severe scarring, risk of cutting off so much tissue that erections are painful, risk of losing the penis entirely (David Reimer ring a bell?), risk of death. Benefits: Potentially lowering the already nearly nil risk of penile cancer. Costs of removing breast buds: no breasts will grow, inability to breast feed, small risk of infection or death from surgery. Benefits: Won’t be one of the 213,000 women diagnosed with breast cancer every year, nor the 40,970 who will die from breast cancer every year. Around 400 men in the UK (which does not practice routine circumcision) will get penile cancer each year. 400. More than 100 times that number will **die** of breast cancer in the US **this year** and every other year. One in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. You wanna talk cost and benefit some more? If it’s ridiculous to remove breast buds with those odds, it’s even more ridiculous to remove foreskins. > [@](#): > > **DSeid** said: > It is sort of pro-choice thing. I don’t think anyone here has argued that a man has no right to a circumcision **on himself**. What we have said is that the **choice** should be left up to the individual whose penis it is. > [@](#): > > **storyteller0910** said: > an you not see the difference between: (1) a procedure / removal that has a potential benefit but has no practical or functional impact; and (2) a procedure / removal that would drastically alter the child’s life from a practical / functional standpoint? If you do see a difference between those things, than arguing for their equivalence doesn’t seem quite rational. The difference is that if you went by a pure assesment of the benefits, breast bud removal blows away circumcision. The point I’m making is that though the benefits of breast bud removal would be high, the procedure is ridiculous if done to an infant. Circumcision, if it has a benefit at all, has a much, much smaller one, and is therefore equally ridiculous. > [@](#): > > **Jophiel** said: > As I noted, there are measurable benefits to neonatal circumcision. The same benefits, to an even greater degree and much, much more reliably, can be achieved with condom usage and not being promiscuous. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/175 "2007-01-31T00:25:30Z")
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but will relate an experience I had in college. I dated a grad student for awhile in college. He was a virgin and uncircumsized. The first time we had intercourse(no toys, missionary position), he split his foreskin. Ye gods, there was blood everywhere. We were the talk of the ER. Yippee–didn’t help that I was a nursing student and so knew some of the folks in the ER. He had to have an adult circ. He had spinal anesthesia and had a terrible reaction to it (that really has nothing to do with the circ per se, I’m just finishing the story). So, adult circ is not always this um, cut and dried procedure, either. Put me off sex for months… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/176 "2007-01-31T01:56:50Z")
**spazurek** states > [@](#): > > Parents do not have a right to absolute control over their childrens’ bodies. Indeed, children have an absolute right to the integrity of their bodies unless there is an overriding interest to violate that right (i.e. if it would do more harm than good to the child or to the public to maintain bodily integrity) While no one is claiming an _absolute_ parental control, I an more intrigued with your claim of an absolute right of bodily integrity. My cutting my kids nails and others getting their kid’s ears pierced violates that too, I guess. **catsix** merely states as fact something that the evidence says is false and the cite already provided: > [@](#): > > Costs of circumcision: removal of sensitive tissue that will have an effect on sexual pleasure … Again no study has shown that to be the case. The above anecdote is an extreme example of the converse and studies show, if anything, a lesser degree of painful intercourse and erectile difficulties and greater sexual variety in circumcised males. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/177 "2007-01-31T02:14:13Z")
> [@](#): > > **DSeid** said: > Again no study has shown that to be the case. The above anecdote is an extreme example of the converse and studies show, if anything, a lesser degree of painful intercourse and erectile difficulties and greater sexual variety in circumcised males. How can it not have an effect on sexual pleasure when you cut off a part of the body that is, in addition to its function of protecting the glans, an erogenous zone? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/178 "2007-01-31T03:38:33Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Can you not see the difference between: (1) a procedure / removal that has a potential benefit but has no practical or functional impact; and (2) a procedure / removal that would drastically alter the child’s life from a practical / functional standpoint? If you do see a difference between those things, than arguing for their equivalence doesn’t seem quite rational. [QUOTE=catsix] The difference is that if you went by a pure assesment of the benefits, breast bud removal blows away circumcision. The point I’m making is that though the benefits of breast bud removal would be high, the procedure is ridiculous if done to an infant. Circumcision, if it has a benefit at all, has a much, much smaller one, and is therefore equally ridiculous. [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] Considering that there is such a large difference in functional impact (as **storyteller** points out) and such a large difference in benefits (as **catsix** points out), then I think that pretty much shows that the two are really not analagous at all. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/179 "2007-01-31T05:20:29Z")
[QUOTE=Jophiel] [QUOTE=Mangetout] Why are there so many arguments made so strenuously in support of circumcision on the basis that it prevents this or that disease, when these aren’t generally the reasons that people choose to have it done to their sons? [/QUOTE] Beats me. In fact, I’m not even arguing “in support” of it in that I could completely understand why parents may elect not to do it. It’s not the same as if I was arguing “in support” of gun control or Bush’s actions in Iraq. That’s all. I could see why you’d elect to have it done and I can see why you’d elect not to. I can see where there are bona fide benefits to be gained from having it performed. I can see where one might say “Sure, but they’re not worth it”. What I don’t get are the disingenuous attempts to compare a procedure which leaves the penis functionally completely intact but cosmetically different (and even preferable to some) with lopping off breasts and vulvas and hands and whatever else. As far as your concerns that I’m trying to convince myself, I’m not sure what to tell you excapt that you’re wrong. I can’t prove it and you can’t get inside my head, so you’ll have to take my word on it. [/QUOTE] It seems clear to me you base your opinion on the matter based on what you perceive as the medical benefits. [QUOTE=Jophiel] [QUOTE=Hogwash] Regardless, how many people actually circumcise their kids solely for medical reasons? [/QUOTE] I can’t speak for anyone else, but it played a major role in my own decision. Had I not read the studies I had read and done the research I had done, I doubt I would have swayed that way. I admit that the benefits are not earth-shattering but they were enough to tip me into the circumcision camp in regards to my own son. And, again, several of the studies I read indicated that the highest level of benefits occured when circumcision was done at the neonatal level and declined significantly from there. On the other side of the fence, I have… what? “How dare you remove that piece of skin”? Well, I “dare” do it because I’m his father and I made that decision regarding his health during a window of time when he wasn’t capable of having any input. I also “dared” make it after substantial research into it. And I “dared” make it having had first hand experience with it and feeling that it was, in no way, a detriment to my own life in any way. All of which is second hand to my initial point that I don’t accept it being the same thing as female circumcision. Whether or not you personally find it justifable, I can make an argument for male circumcision on medical grounds. I don’t imagine you can do the same for female circumcision and, until you can, I don’t see comparisons as much more than an emotional ploy. [/QUOTE] So, you are pro-circumcision for boys based on medical reasons, correct? ---
**Author:** ![spazurek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@spazurek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazurek)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582/180 "2007-01-31T13:02:34Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] **spazurek** statesWhile no one is claiming an _absolute_ parental control, I an more intrigued with your claim of an absolute right of bodily integrity. My cutting my kids nails and others getting their kid’s ears pierced violates that too, I guess. [/QUOTE] Nails are dead. That’s just grooming. Ear piercing, done at an age before the kid can object, does indeed violate the kid’s right to bodily integrity. To me this is more obnoxious than outright wrong because it’s a pretty trivial bodily alteration – something that certainly cannot be said for circumcision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-circumcision/389582.md?page=10)