# What's your opinion on hazing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362 "2018-08-09T19:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/61 "2018-08-12T15:33:12Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > **DaRvid** , college is fantasy land compared to any work environment you can name. If that’s true, then any work environment you can name is fantasy land compared to college. That doesn’t mean either one of them is outside the real world. Complaining that college is contrived and artificial doesn’t help, because of all the work environments that are ALSO contrived and artificial. There’s no special pixie dust that makes work more “real” than anything else, and it’s a silly fantasy to claim that there is. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/62 "2018-08-12T16:18:41Z")
I’m not a fan. I don’t believe the whole camaraderie stuff. That doesn’t mean you can’t have some sort of fun games you play or some sort of prank war as part of initiation. But remove it from the concept of hazing, and just make hazing itself against the rules. There should not be some sort of thing new recruits have to suffer through to get in that they then do to the new recruits next time. A prank war is at least bidirectional. And games are games. Just make sure they don’t turn into hazing, by keeping them light and fun, not “it’s just a prank, bro” style. If everyone is having fun, it’s fine. But hazing is about humiliation (or worse). And that’s not good. Even if I did believe hazing helped with camaraderie, I wouldn’t approve, as I would see it as preying on some weird quirk of human nature. You shouldn’t feel more friendly towards people who are humiliating you for their own amusement. And you really shouldn’t want to do it to others. (Excluding completely consensual kink things, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/63 "2018-08-12T16:49:32Z")
The closest my school came to hazing (unless some others in the area at the time) was upperclassmen lining up the hallways to check out the incoming class on the first day. No remarks, no touching. To the newbies it was unnerving, but that’s all. The real tests of whether you belonged involved chemistry, physics, crystallography, numeric calculations, differential calculus I and algebra I. Once you passed those you were allowed to buy your first lab coat and start calling yourself a _quimiquito_ (student or alum at Químic, that being the name of the school). ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/64 "2018-08-13T14:41:22Z")
What modern american educational institutions call “hazing”, is almost always illegal torture. It can sometimes inflict lasting physical injuries, and it _almost always_ involves significant psychological trauma. . It didn’t use to be like this, Hazing used to be a purely social thing whereby a new member starts with zero status, and has to earn it. In the process learning, adapting and growing into the group that they joined. . Nowadays? Its purely an excuse for the perverts to practice their sadism. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/65 "2018-08-13T15:01:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The ship that I sailed on several years ago still does a line-crossing ceremony when they cross the equator. They’re a bit secretive about the details, but I get the impression it’s rather like an amateur talent show for the first-time crossers. I don’t think they’d take it too far.[/size] [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdT2OwDA4e0) is an animated summary of the events in a crossing line ceremony. It can be quite rough but the participants are grown and really _do_ want to become part of the fraternity. I have no idea how many ships still do the ceremony, especially now that there are women in the crew. Perhaps they have their own ceremony apart from the mens’. A mark of distinction the Navy makes other services do not is promotion from E-6 to E-7, P.O. First Class to Chief P.O. It is entirely voluntary but the new inductee can be ‘welcomed’ into the ranks of chiefdom. About a month before the promotion, he is given a journal and told to carry it on his person at all times. Any chief catching him doing any action “unbefitting a chief” makes an entry in the journal and, at the ceremony, he is brought up on these transgressions and, needless to say found guilty. I was not privy to what the punishments were and am pretty sure they vary from ship to ship or station. My last duty station, Winter Harbor ME, one inductee was a crewman on [_Pueblo_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)) when it had been captured ten years before and was still a bit frail. I was told they went easier on him than usual, and that anything involving alcohol had been eliminated for a couple years in any event. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/66 "2018-08-13T15:24:31Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdT2OwDA4e0) is an animated summary of the events in a crossing line ceremony. It can be quite rough but the participants are grown and really _do_ want to become part of the fraternity. I have no idea how many ships still do the ceremony, especially now that there are women in the crew. Perhaps they have their own ceremony apart from the mens’. Just because people really “want” to become part of the fraternity, and the fraternity really wants to create a sense of scarcity by setting up some barrier, doesn’t mean that such barriers aren’t nasty exercises. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/67 "2018-08-13T16:32:26Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdT2OwDA4e0) is an animated summary of the events in a crossing line ceremony. It can be quite rough but the participants are grown and really _do_ want to become part of the fraternity. I have no idea how many ships still do the ceremony, especially now that there are women in the crew. Perhaps they have their own ceremony apart from the mens’. > > A mark of distinction the Navy makes… I wasn’t in the Navy. In fact, my ship looked a bit like the one in the video. And I did cut off my hair and go swimming, but strictly for comfort. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/68 "2018-08-13T16:42:43Z")
A recently commissioned AF officer I met a few years ago was an enlisted Marine before OTS. He told us of his ceremony when he was on a ship that crossed the equator. One of the things he was supposed to do was eat an olive out of the belly button of some fat CPO. He absolutely refused, even when the Marine Full Bird Colonel was screaming in his face to just do it one time. He was a pretty good guy. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/69 "2018-08-13T16:50:45Z")
Some form of hazing shows up in remarkable places. For example, the BSA Order of the Arrow had an “ordeal” that new members had to undergo before being inducted as members of the lodge. Back in the 60s, this included not speaking for a period of time (usually a day) and being dropped off in a semi-remote location in the woods to sleep by yourself for the night. The food was pretty minimal during this period, too. It’s rather tame stuff, but it’s definitely meant to challenge new OAs and help build a bond between members. At the induction ceremony, you got to learn some secret stuff, including the handshake and an admonition that must only be whispered. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/70 "2018-08-13T16:53:15Z")
I find that when I join a group where the people are nice to me, I bond just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362/71 "2018-08-13T22:33:31Z")
I’m reading Keith Hernandez’s semi-autobiography (he was a star with the Cardinals and Mets in the 1970s-80s). In talking about his reception by veterans when he was in the minors and as a major league rookie, he mentions players and staff who went out of their way to help him and give him advice. On the other hand there were people like Bob Gibson who was offended that a rookie would dare go to the trainer’s room to get first aid for his blister, and yelled at Hernandez to get out. I’m not sure how this sort of thing results in bonding, not to mention a better team. It’s gone on for a long time in pro sports and the overriding theme consistently seems to be ugly human nature. One of the worst examples involved hazing of a young Ty Cobb by many of his Detroit Tigers teammates. Arguably they created a (nearly literal) monster in the process. And while Cobb became a great player, his Tigers teams never won a championship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-opinion-on-hazing/819362.md?page=3)