# What's your solution to a million unwanted pregnacies occurring as a result of protected sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2009, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156 "2009-10-26T10:14:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/81 "2009-10-26T22:20:10Z")
Why should married people have special privileges? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/82 "2009-10-26T22:20:13Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > Exactly my point. This ATTITUDE that sex doesn’t equal procreation is the problem. My point in the OP is that your thinking is completely wrong. The only viable solution is abortion. This change in attitude towards sex is the sole reason abortion has been accepted by society. And yes I do mean only. I truly believe that if people as a whole didn’t change their attitudes towards sex they would think the idea of forcefully removing a fetus from the womb was monstrous. Utter nonsense - the attitude towards sex has nothing at all to do with abortion. What matters is the attitude towards unborn fetuses, which is closely tied to the strength of the churches in the culture. The proof of this is that sex has been accepted a _lot_ longer than abortion has. ETA: And abstinence-only programs have _never_ worked. People just worked harder at covering up the results. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/83 "2009-10-26T22:31:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “Respect” for sex? Looking at sex as evil and filthy isn’t respect. I don’t look at sex as evil. I’m decidedly anti-Catholic by the way. My problem is that everyone has this attitude that sex is fun so let’s do it and damn the consequenses. If there are any, I can get an abortion so really there aren’t any consequenses (aside from STDs) to having sex whenever I want it. Abortion and the pill enabled a change in attitude towards sex. And look at what the attitude has done. It has caused you all to respond “abstenence doesn’t work” and “you can’t get people to stop having sex.” If people changed their attitudes towards sex once, why wouldn’t they change their attitude back once they realize it was a mistake? Now we have abortions, and the denial of an unborn’s suffering when it is being aborted, but if abortions were eliminated then I suspect people’s attitudes towards sex would change, despite the results of that flawed poll I have on that subject. In fact some of the married respondents say that they would stop having vaginal sex altogether if abortions were made illegal. (Repealing Roe vs Wade is not the point of this thread BTW.) ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/84 "2009-10-26T22:35:10Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > And besides saying the US is at replacement level is not true. We are still growing, as of the last census. We’ll find out more in a year or so. Births in the US aren’t the only source of US population. We also have people moving to the US from other countries. In 2006, we had 37 million people here who were not born here. We naturalize about a million a year. > [@](#): > > I truly believe that if people as a whole didn’t change their attitudes towards sex they would think the idea of forcefully removing a fetus from the womb was monstrous. They might just wait until the baby was born, and leave it out for the elements and the wild animals if they didn’t want it. Would that be better? > [@](#): > > Why not? Is it because abstinence only programs don’t work? They don’t work because we haven’t changed our attitudes towards sex. The problem with many overweight people isn’t that they eat too much or that they don’t exercise. It’s their lifestyle. It’s their attitude. Without changing someone’s attitude you will never get them to lose weight. Same thing here. Without a change in attitude, people will continue to find ways to get pregnant. And if we changed our attitude toward working hard even if we’re paid the same for slacking off, Communism would work. That doesn’t mean such a change is possible, or desirable. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/85 "2009-10-26T22:35:15Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > But our population growth (even in America) is still on the rise, even with abortion. According to census data, our population growth is 0.888% ([cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Population_growth_rate)) It’s true that this is non-negative but I don’t believe that it’s excessive. You asked if 160,000 were too many unplanned pregnancies - given the earlier number of 8 million sexually active women, that equals .02% of women having unplanned pregnancies. Again, I think we can do better but I don’t think it’s a crisis. It’s never going to be completely 0.0 and you haven’t demonstrated any reason why we should want it to be. > [@](#): > > Did you READ the OP? Birth control doesn’t stop pregnancies from happening for a group of millions or billions of people. The OP does nothing to support the idea that birth control fails to prevent millions - much less billions - of pregnancies. I said birth control, healthier attitudes and honest discussion of sex, and abortion were combined are a reasonable solution to unplanned pregnancy. I would consider attempting to curtail sexual behavior to both unhealthy and and a waste of time. Here’s something your OP doesn’t address - You seem to be saying that the number of unplanned pregnancies has increased since the sexual revolution and the introduction of hormonal birth control and that the way to reverse this is to persuade people to have less sex. You haven’t demonstrated that the number of unplanned pregnancies has increased in the last 50 years. What was the rate of unplanned pregnancies in 1955 and how has it changed over the years? Here’s a study from 1995 that says unplanned pregancies were declining thanks to increased access to education and birth control - > **[Unintended pregnancy in the United States - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9494812/)** > > Rates of unintended pregnancy have declined, probably as a result of higher contraceptive prevalence and use of more effective methods. Efforts to achieve further decreases should focus on reducing risky behavior, promoting the use of effective... Has it gotten worse since then? Here’s something else you don’t address: the growing disparity in unplanned pregnancies between women living below & above the poverty line. Here’s another study from 2006 - [cite](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/04/AR2006050400820.html) > [@](#): > > Based on nationwide data collected by the National Center for Health Statistics and other sources, the researchers found that from 1994 through 2001, the rate of unplanned pregnancies increased by almost 30 percent for women below the federal poverty line – now defined as $16,000 annually for a family of three. For women in families comfortably above poverty, the rate of unplanned pregnancies fell by 20 percent during the same period. It’s clear from this study that women who have access to education and BC almost never get pregnant unless they want to. In other words - this study suggests the problem isn’t rampant sexual freedom but funding for BC for poor women. The easiest answer to that would be free, subsidized, birth control. Something I advocated in my first post. Finally, your OP doesn’t address the fact that abstinence programs in the last few years have proven to fail miserably. There are many studies out there but here’s a link to the 2007 Congressional study that showed that abstinence eductated middle schoolers were just as likely to have sex as other middle schoolers. [cite](http://www.mathematica-mpr.com/publications/PDFs/impactabstinence.pdf) You’re arguing that abstinence is the only way to decrease the unwanted pregancy rate but you haven’t demonstrated that abstinence promotion has any actual success at doing so. So far, the evidence suggest it’s useless. > [@](#): > > Aren’t humans a part of nature? Yours is a very slim argument, you must admit. Humans have never absorbed their fetuses. What, never? Well, not after a certain point, obviously (for animals other than humans, too.) But in the first month? How would we know? You said that abortion is unnatural. My argument is that you are incorrect - it’s perfectly natural for mothers in the wild to end pregnancies or destroy their offspring if caring for them is too difficult. It happens all the time. The urge to abort a fetus is a natural response to circumstances which a mother finds intolerable. Aborting a fetus is a perfectly reasonable response to an unplanned pregnancy, therefore easier access to abortion would help in preventing unwanted children. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/86 "2009-10-26T22:36:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Sounded like it to me: > > You called it one of two answers. Did I say I supported forced abortions? I used it to show that the only viable solution is a change in attitude towards sex. We can’t force abortions onto people. And we can’t force sterilization. The only “nice” thing we can do is educate and convince people that sex, even protected sex, is dangerous to the public welfare and it should be treated with respect and admiration. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/87 "2009-10-26T22:37:24Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > Abortion and the pill enabled a change in attitude towards sex. And look at what the attitude has done. It has caused you all to respond “abstenence doesn’t work” and “you can’t get people to stop having sex.” Abortion has existed for a really long time, so I’ll adjust your statement to “legal abortion.” Before legal abortion and the pill, there were still unwanted pregnancies. The sexual revolution didn’t make women more fertile. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/88 "2009-10-26T22:39:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why should married people have special privileges? Because they have demonstrated a level of commitment to each other that a couple that’s been dating for a few weeks has not. They are further along in their life and more likely able to care for a baby. They are less likely to abort in the case of a pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/89 "2009-10-26T22:40:04Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > This change in attitude towards sex is the sole reason abortion has been accepted by society. And yes I do mean only. I truly believe that if people as a whole didn’t change their attitudes towards sex they would think the idea of forcefully removing a fetus from the womb was monstrous. And here’s the crux of your argument, I’d bet. ---
**Author:** ![sinusoidal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@sinusoidal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinusoidal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/90 "2009-10-26T22:41:45Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > Now we have abortions, and the denial of an unborn’s suffering when it is being aborted, but if abortions were eliminated then I suspect people’s attitudes towards sex would change, despite the results of that flawed poll I have on that subject. In fact some of the married respondents say that they would stop having vaginal sex altogether if abortions were made illegal. (Repealing Roe vs Wade is not the point of this thread BTW.) Wait a second, I’m confused. I thought this thread was about the problem of overpopulation. You claimed there was a dilemma; either we must stop having sex, or we must have (forced?) abortions. Now you are saying we should eliminate abortions so people will stop having sex? This is a different topic entirely. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/91 "2009-10-26T22:45:25Z")
> [@](#): > > You asked if 160,000 were too many unplanned pregnancies - given the earlier number of 8 million sexually active women, that equals .02% of women having unplanned pregnancies. Again, I think we can do better but I don’t think it’s a crisis. It’s never going to be completely 0.0 and you haven’t demonstrated any reason why we should want it to be. Check your math. It’s not .02%. It 2%. That is after all the assumed failure rate of perfect condom use. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/92 "2009-10-26T22:46:36Z")
You’re forgetting that the sexual revolution wasn’t a worldwide phenomenon. It didn’t happen in places like China, India, or the Middle East when it was happening in the Western world. When the sexual revolution happened in the Western world, it coincided with birthrates declining, not increasing. You can’t blame the sexual revolution for high birthrates in places where it didn’t happen. > [@SmartAlx](#): > > In fact some of the married respondents say that they would stop having vaginal sex altogether if abortions were made illegal. What people say they might do in a hypothetical thread on a message board, and what people actually do when a situation happens, aren’t necessarily the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/93 "2009-10-26T22:49:46Z")
> [@sinusoidal](#): > > Wait a second, I’m confused. I thought this thread was about the problem of overpopulation. You claimed there was a dilemma; either we must stop having sex, or we must have (forced?) abortions. Now you are saying we should eliminate abortions so people will stop having sex? This is a different topic entirely. Uh…exactly? That is why I said “Repealing Roe vs Wade is not the point of this thread BTW.” You even quoted it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/94 "2009-10-26T22:50:01Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > The only “nice” thing we can do is educate and convince people that sex, even protected sex, is dangerous to the public welfare and it should be treated with respect and admiration. “Admiration”? That’s… not a word I would have tended to use. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/95 "2009-10-26T22:50:17Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > I don’t look at sex as evil. I’m decidedly anti-Catholic by the way. My problem is that everyone has this attitude that sex is fun so let’s do it and damn the consequenses. If there are any, I can get an abortion so really there aren’t any consequenses (aside from STDs) to having sex whenever I want it. Abortion and the pill enabled a change in attitude towards sex. And look at what the attitude has done. It has caused you all to respond “abstenence doesn’t work” and “you can’t get people to stop having sex.” If people changed their attitudes towards sex once, why wouldn’t they change their attitude back once they realize it was a mistake? Now we have abortions, and the denial of an unborn’s suffering when it is being aborted, but if abortions were eliminated then I suspect people’s attitudes towards sex would change, despite the results of that flawed poll I have on that subject. In fact some of the married respondents say that they would stop having vaginal sex altogether if abortions were made illegal. (Repealing Roe vs Wade is not the point of this thread BTW.) Again, you’re hallucinating if people really refrained from having recreational sex before the “sexual revolution”. Attitudes towards actually _having_ sex haven’t changed; only the attitudes towards admitting it in public have. You think you’re trying to put a genie back into a bottle, but what you’re actually dealing with is an elephant that’s been in the middle of the room the whole time, and we’re now all admitting it. And that elephant isn’t going to fit in your bottle; it never did. > [@SmartAlx](#): > > Because they have demonstrated a level of commitment to each other that a couple that’s been dating for a few weeks has not. They are further along in their life and more likely able to care for a baby. They are less likely to abort in the case of a pregnancy. Okay, this made me laugh. Perhaps you forgot that you haven’t finished banning divorce yet. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/96 "2009-10-26T22:50:54Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > Exactly my point. This ATTITUDE that sex doesn’t equal procreation is the problem. My point in the OP is that your thinking is completely wrong. No, sex DOES NOT equal procreation. We just aren’t built that way. _ **Most** _ sex acts are for other reasons than procreation; most have no chance of producing offspring. > [@SmartAlx](#): > > This change in attitude towards sex is the sole reason abortion has been accepted by society. And yes I do mean only. I truly believe that if people as a whole didn’t change their attitudes towards sex they would think the idea of forcefully removing a fetus from the womb was monstrous. Garbage. Opposition to abortion is all about hatred and contempt towards women, not sex. The attitudes of sex in such a culture is going to be that “women are there to be used”. > [@SmartAlx](#): > > Is it because abstinence only programs don’t work? They don’t work because we haven’t changed our attitudes towards sex. Nonsense. They’ve NEVER worked, not in all of history. > [@SmartAlx](#): > > My problem is that everyone has this attitude that sex is fun so let’s do it and damn the consequenses. If there are any, I can get an abortion so really there aren’t any consequenses (aside from STDs) to having sex whenever I want it. And handling sex that way is a perfectly reasonable attitude. > [@SmartAlx](#): > > Abortion and the pill enabled a change in attitude towards sex. And look at what the attitude has done. It has caused you all to respond “abstenence doesn’t work” and “you can’t get people to stop having sex.” If people changed their attitudes towards sex once, why wouldn’t they change their attitude back once they realize it was a mistake? What? Go back to having sex anyway, but treating the woman as a slut or a piece of property? As for stopping sex; that’s never been pulled off even when backed with the threat of torture and executions. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/97 "2009-10-26T22:51:20Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > And if we changed our attitude toward working hard even if we’re paid the same for slacking off, Communism would work. That doesn’t mean such a change is possible, or desirable. Indeed not. Never mind the chances that that many people would work that hard for reasons other than financial ones. Even just theoretically, all that free-floating altruism would rip any free society apart like a $5 lawn chair in a hurricane. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/98 "2009-10-26T22:52:28Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > Married women are more likely to get sterilized, not that it eliminates pregnancy, but being that unmarried women will generally not be sterilized so they are more likely to become pregnant. . Please note, it is sodding near impossible for a single woman to get sterilized. I had to have my gyno fight tooth and nail to get permission to snip me after 2 almost fatal pregnancies. It took him almost 8 months of arguing and changing to a different hospital to do so. This was back in the early 80s. There are a _lot_ of single women who have absolutely no interest in popping a sprog out of their cootchie and it really isnt fair to hold their happiness and reproductive safety out of their grasp. If you have no health issues whatsoever, and are single, and in your early 20s, forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/99 "2009-10-26T22:53:16Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > But condoms ARE available OTC. And I thought I demonstrated how birth control in the context of a population is still pretty ineffective. Even if used properly we would be talking tens of thousands of unexpected of pregnancies. Is that what you thought you did? Sorry, turns out you did the opposite. 100,000 unplanned pregnancies in a year is a pretty impressively small number, for a country with a population as big as our own. Imagine how big it would be if we didn’t have access to birth control! ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156/100 "2009-10-26T22:53:17Z")
**Merneith** , many if your points I addressed in the discussion, not in the OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-your-solution-to-a-million-unwanted-pregnacies-occurring-as-a-result-of-protected-sex/515156.md?page=6)