# Whay are there potholes where white lines were? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037 "2005-06-20T13:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/21 "2005-06-21T14:02:55Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > OK, well, the popcorn pavement suggestion makes the most sense, but this gave me an idea… you don’t suppose they could make the lane divider lines slightly raised or lowered to get a sort of “Hey stupid!” bump to remind the driver to get back in his lane? That is a good thought and I’ve see it used on the right shoulder to do what you suggested. Centerlines, however, need to be reflective to be useful at night and the depressed-markings idea seems like it would allow water to pool over the stripes. Might also make for a control problem for motorcycles. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/22 "2005-06-21T17:54:44Z")
> [@Nicodemus2004](#): > > That is a good thought and I’ve see it used on the right shoulder to do what you suggested. Centerlines, however, need to be reflective to be useful at night and the depressed-markings idea seems like it would allow water to pool over the stripes. Might also make for a control problem for motorcycles. Also likely wouldn’t work in cold climates with snow… State employed snowplows are unlikely to care if they hit and remove the markers. They would simply get scraped up with the snow. I’ve noticed that we don’t have those “round dot” markers up here, like they do in some places in the south. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/23 "2005-06-22T02:34:35Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Great info, but I’m not buying it. Cold joints probably account for a good bit of potholes, but unless the cold joints just so happen to be exactly 4\*120 inches, with a 30 foot gap between each, it wouldn’t account for what I’ve seen. Okay, do you see this occurring under the solid white breakdown lane line? Or the solid line next to the median strip? The same material is used for striping there, but sometimes they pave the breakdown lane or the far left as part of the adjacent lane. If so, there would be no joint, so this could narrow down whether it was the striping or the joint. Actually, from your further description, I wonder if water is being trapped in porous pavement cold joints below the striping, which would accelerate the freeze thaw problem. What _I_ don’t buy is the answer that the high heat of the thermoplastic is causing the problem. Pavement goes down at 300 degrees or more, and joints are sometimes sealed with infrared (sorry, no information as the temperature). Heat doesn’t seem to be a problem with pavement. > [@Nicodemus2004](#): > > **Plynck** - Spend some time behind a loot rake or were you in another area of the paving process? No, I was the guy you hated when you were raking. I work for an engineering firm, and I’ve been a paving inspector on more jobs than I can count. You know when you drive by a work crew on the highway, and one guy always has his hands in his pockets? Yep, that was me! > [@Nicodemus2004](#): > > As a line stripper I played “Follow the Paver” on many occasions myself. Was there a lap dance with that? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/24 "2005-06-22T03:16:33Z")
…here’s an idea, and I’ll be the first to admit it might be foolish. Could there have been anything about old striping underneath the current surface pavement that would cause that part of the surface to not adhere to the old pavement very well? Could there be any chemical in the old striping that could have caused some weakening in the last overlay? It does seem odd that the surface pavement could fail for only the constant width observed. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/25 "2005-06-22T12:30:05Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > Okay, do you see this occurring under the solid white breakdown lane line? Or the solid line next to the median strip? The same material is used for striping there, but sometimes they pave the breakdown lane or the far left as part of the adjacent lane. If so, there would be no joint, so this could narrow down whether it was the striping or the joint. Actually, from your further description, I wonder if water is being trapped in porous pavement cold joints below the striping, which would accelerate the freeze thaw problem. > > What _I_ don’t buy is the answer that the high heat of the thermoplastic is causing the problem. Pavement goes down at 300 degrees or more, and joints are sometimes sealed with infrared (sorry, no information as the temperature). Heat doesn’t seem to be a problem with pavement. > > No, I was the guy you hated when you were raking. I work for an engineering firm, and I’ve been a paving inspector on more jobs than I can count. You know when you drive by a work crew on the highway, and one guy always has his hands in his pockets? Yep, that was me! > > Was there a lap dance with that? 🙂 STRIPER :smack: Jeeez. I used to give people crap for making that same mistake all the time. :smack: And no, no loot rake fits these hands. I started in this field as a STRIPER, crewleader on paint and thermoplastic jobs. Later got into County programs, contracts and inspections related to Traffic Engineering. I too was the guy with the white truck and a roll of bluelines in his hand, standing around as well. This is not to say the Out-Of-Town jobs did _not_ include a lap dance on occasion 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/26 "2005-06-22T13:52:39Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > Okay, do you see this occurring under the solid white breakdown lane line? Or the solid line next to the median strip? The same material is used for striping there, but sometimes they pave the breakdown lane or the far left as part of the adjacent lane. I haven’t noticed, but I’ll try to pay more attention next time I’m down that way. But if those lines are not disturbed, I wonder if that can be attributed to those areas not being touched by snow plows as much. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/27 "2005-06-22T13:54:17Z")
> [@Civil Guy](#): > > Could there have been anything about old striping underneath the current surface pavement that would cause that part of the surface to not adhere to the old pavement very well? Could there be any chemical in the old striping that could have caused some weakening in the last overlay? This would seem possible only if the newer stripes were placed _exactly_ over the older ones. That doesn’t seem likely. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037/28 "2005-06-25T22:19:17Z")
Arrgh. Eating some serious foot here :smack: [Mass Highway Directive E-05-003](http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/downloads/engineeringDirectives/2005/E_05_003.pdf) dated June 16, 2005. I’ve talked to the folks in our transportation department, and they have just been made aware of this, although the reasons have not been particularly forthcoming from MHD. Well, eventually the truth will out, I suppose. Kudos to Dopers for being ahead of the curve on this. All I can say in my own defense is that thermoplastic I have never had an issue with Top Course or Modified Top Course paving that is used in most cities and towns. This seems to be limited to OGFC paving that is used in highways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whay-are-there-potholes-where-white-lines-were/309037.md?page=1)