# wheat != whole wheat **URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589 **Category:** The BBQ Pit **Created:** [January 1, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589 "2005-01-01T22:21:22Z") **Posts on this page:** 19 **Page:** 4
### Author: ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/61 "2005-01-06T02:02:38Z")
> [@Glory](#): > > I love coffee. > > I switched to tea because: 1) I also like the taste of tea 2) there are so many studies that tea is incredibly good for me (fights cancer, reduces the risk of cavities, for example). > > I haven’t seen any studies that suggest that coffee has anywhere near the potential health benefits. According to this [article](http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/80/96454.htm) about the health benefits of coffee, it’s mostly about the caffeine. > [@](#): > > Consider this: At least six studies indicate that people who drink coffee on a regular basis are up to 80% less likely to develop Parkinson’s, with three showing the more they drink, the lower the risk. Other research shows that compared to not drinking coffee, at least two cups daily can translate to a 25% reduced risk of colon cancer, an 80% drop in liver cirrhosis risk, and nearly half the risk of gallstones. > > Coffee even offsets some of the damage caused by other vices, some research indicates. “People who smoke and are heavy drinkers have less heart disease and liver damage when they regularly consume large amounts of coffee compared to those who don’t,” says DePaulis. > > There’s also some evidence that coffee may help manage asthma and even control attacks when medication is unavailable, stop a headache, boost mood, and even prevent cavities. I like a cup of tea now and then, but I don’t see any reason to go to it full time. Each to their own taste, eh? ---
### Author: ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/62 "2005-01-06T16:31:47Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > See Derleth’s post #38 above: “It’s too easily digested, turning to something not much better than sugar and filling the blood with glucose.” But…but…but the carbohydrates are not transformed by the processing and, therefore, are no more accessible than they are in whole wheat flour ground to the same consistency! I’m guessing based on too little information because Googling it gives mostly scare sites and I don’t have the time to research it further but it’s sounds like you don’t really know what you are talking about, either, and have been listening to people as poorly informed as you and I but who have a prejudice against white flour because it isn’t “natural.” In a switch from the norm it looks like I need to take this from the Pit to GQ. ---
### Author: ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/63 "2005-01-06T18:30:52Z")
My understanding (but IANAN) is that highly processed grain shortcuts one’s own digestive processes, so that you get a much quicker spike of the end-products, which are essentially sugars. Also, leaving out the bran etc means you’re getting a lot more of the sugary stuff per unit volume consumed. My experience with white flour products like biscuits is that I’ll get a noticeable dip an hour or so after eating them, unless it’s a small portion consumed with other foods like meat and cheese, and I’ll have to take a nap. My guess is that it’s not doing my system any good. Could be wrong, though. Let us know if/when you post in GQ or find a previous thread that addresses this issue. ---
### Author: ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/64 "2005-01-06T20:17:32Z")
That’s what I understand too, **Sample**. The more fibre, the longer your body takes to break the carbs down to simple sugars, the less of a sugar spike and crash you get. ---
### Author: ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/65 "2005-01-06T21:26:45Z")
Nope. Ain’t true and I have the figures to prove it instead of my usual practice of pulling factoids out of my ass. Well, I DID pull the factoid out of my ass but thanks to [the folks in GQ](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=295526) I got a lead on where to find the true facts, [the Glycemic Index](http://www.glycemicindex.com/), which measures how quickly carbohydrates are absorbed. It turns out there is no difference between the absorption rates of Wonder Bread and _plain_ (nothing fancy) bread made with whole wheat flour. This says nothing about taste, texture, fiber, or interesting oils and stuff lost in the processing of white flour. Just the carbs. But if you want a bread that fights back and you will NEVER digest completely I suggest one from Chicago’s Baltic Bakery: a rye (I think it’s their Lithuanian rye) that is nearly ALL unbroken seeds with only enough flour to hold it together, sorta. ---
### Author: ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/66 "2005-01-06T21:49:44Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > [the Glycemic Index](http://www.glycemicindex.com/), which measures how quickly carbohydrates are absorbed. Gluten-free white bread, unsliced: 71 Gluten-free white bread, sliced: 80 Crikey, slicing that bread does some funky shit! ---
### Author: ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/67 "2005-01-06T22:46:25Z")
Regarding [glycemic index](http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=32): > [@World's Healthiest Foods](#): > > Concentrate on eating foods that are high in fiber. In general, high-fiber foods take longer to digest and therefore produce a slower rise in blood glucose levels. Whole, unprocessed foods that still contain their original amounts of fiber move more slowly through the gastrointestinal tract than those whose fiber has been removed. These fiber-rich foods more fully engage the digestive process, thereby slowing release of sugar into the blood. This provides a feeling of satiety, or fullness, which helps prevent overeating. Many of the World’s Healthiest Foods are high in fiber and can be relied upon to maintain healthy blood glucose levels. These include most vegetables, **whole grains** , legumes, nuts, seeds, and even fruits such as apples and pears when eaten with their skin and not as juice. Citrus fruits, in particular, have a lower GI than most other fruits. > [@World's Healthiest Foods](#): > > There are two ways of computing glycemic index because there are two standards of comparison. The earliest standards used glucose. \ Today, however, the scientific community has largely abandoned the glucose standard for a starch standard. At the World’s Healthiest Foods, we believe that this standard provides a more accurate assessment of GI. Using this newer standard, a 50 gram portion of white bread (made using the 60% extraction process for wheat flour) is used as the standard and given a value of 100. Such bread, made from refined flour, is the bread most commonly eaten in the standard American diet. White bread (a starch) has been chosen as the new standard because the glycemic response to white bread is more reliable than the response to glucose, and **more insulin activity is stimulated by white bread than by glucose**. In addition, glucose tends to attract water. This effect, called osmolarity, can delay gastric emptying and misrepresent the insulin response. So, when looking over GI numbers, it’s critical to know whether glucose or white bread was used as the standard. Keep in mind that the white bread values are the most accurate. WHF reports a GI of 95 for whole wheat bread, so by their data it’s not really that much different from white bread! (However, this number comes from “13 samples” which are not identified as 100% whole wheat, though they may have been.) Rye kernel bread and wheat kernel bread with a mix of 80% kernels and 20% white wheat flour had GIs of 70 and 73. “Multi-grain bread” had a GI of 60. Kinda confusing. However, GI is not the only reason to eat whole grains, which are recommended by the American Cancer Society, American Diabetes Association, and others: > [@ACS](#): > > Because the bran and germ contain much of the vitamins, minerals and all of the fiber found in grains, whole grains have more fiber and nutrients than refined (or processed) grains. > [@ACS](#): > > Refined grains… can cause fatigue due to changes in blood sugar levels. \ The main sources of carbohydrates in the diet should be whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits. When choosing grain products, look for those that list “whole grain” as the first ingredient on the label’s ingredient list. [QUOTE=ACS] These guidelines form the basis for a healthy diet. They emphasize: [ul] [li]vegetables and fruits [/li][li]legumes and whole grains [/li][li]lowfat or nonfat dairy products [/li][li]limited amounts of red meat (lean meats are preferred over processed meats and those high in fat).[/ul] [/li][/QUOTE] ---
### Author: ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/68 "2005-01-06T23:14:10Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > However, GI is not the only reason to eat whole grains, which are recommended by the American Cancer Society, American Diabetes Association, and others: And that I do not deny, as you can see in my post. TMI Alert! I find that, for me, high fiber foods do not move through one slower; thanks to a “colicky liver” I have shat my salad (yes, recognizable lettuce bits) before getting to dessert. :eek: Back to that Lithuanian rye (sorry, but I missed lunch today). Toasted, with peanut butter and hot pepper giardinare (in oil), it’s about as close to heaven as a sandwich can get and with no trans fats to speak of and a lowish GI. ---
### Author: ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose) #### Post date: [January 6, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/69 "2005-01-06T23:52:07Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > WHF reports a GI of 95 for whole wheat bread, so by their data it’s not really that much different from white bread! (However, this number comes from “13 samples” which are not identified as 100% whole wheat, though they may have been.) Rye kernel bread and wheat kernel bread with a mix of 80% kernels and 20% white wheat flour had GIs of 70 and 73. “Multi-grain bread” had a GI of 60. Kinda confusing. > > However, GI is not the only reason to eat whole grains, which are recommended by the American Cancer Society, American Diabetes Association, and others: Actually, I think that GI ratings are kind of misleading (or maybe they’re just misleading for me). I’m not a doctor, but I understand that the glycemic index of foods isn’t a good yardstick to use when looking for healthy foods unless you’re diabetic or pre-diabetic. For one thing, the glycemic index of a particular food can change when you cook it. For another, the effect that low or high glycemic foods have on any individual depends on your (general you) current blood sugar levels. In addition, people generally eat foods in combination, so logistically, it’s hard to keep track of the GI rating of what you’re eating. I’ve also heard that GI ratings are primarily applied to starches like potatoes, bread and pasta, rather than fruits and vegetables. I found this Diabetes Forecast discussion on GI ratings on the American Diabetic Association’s Web site: [link](http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-forecast/apr2003/research.jsp). It was pretty interesting. ---
### Author: ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/70 "2005-01-07T01:45:51Z")
The empirical evidence of my glucose monitor is that whole wheat flour spikes up my blood sugar less than white bread or “wheat bread,” but sprouted wheat breads like Ezekiel (e.g., [http://www.mybloodsugar.net/foodforlife.htm](http://www.mybloodsugar.net/foodforlife.htm)) cause a much lower increase in my blood sugar. They also keep my energy up longer. If I eat a fried egg, coffee, and a slice of Ezekiel bread for breakfast, I’m good until 11:00. If I don’t eat bread at all, or eat a non-whole-grain bread, I make it until about 9:45 and then need a snack because I’m faint. ---
### Author: ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/71 "2005-01-07T02:38:48Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > “Marmalade, I like marmalade…” Still stuck in the Summer of '67? ---
### Author: ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/72 "2005-01-07T17:00:22Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Still stuck in the Summer of '67? (SINGING) All my sorrows, sad tomorrows, Take me back to my own home. All my cryings (all my cryings), feel I’m dying, dying, Take me back to my own home (oh I’m going home) ---
### Author: ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/73 "2005-01-07T17:29:03Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Still stuck in the Summer of '67? Hopelessly stuck in Summer '68. I even have the recipe for the “Traditional Bedouin Wedding Feast” on my fridge! Maybe one day, I’ll remerge, if that fat old sun ever rises and shines sunny side up. 🙂 ---
### Author: ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/74 "2005-01-07T17:31:13Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > unless you’re diabetic or pre-diabetic. Bingo! And ADA estimates that about 1/3 of diabetics don’t know they have the condition. ---
### Author: ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/75 "2005-01-07T17:54:20Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > Bingo! And ADA estimates that about 1/3 of diabetics don’t know they have the condition. I’m not sure that the knowledge that 1/3 of diabetics don’t know they’re diabetic would be enough impetus to get me to follow a low-GI diet, though. I think it’d have me asking my doctor for a blood test instead, then following his instructions upon receipt of the results. ---
### Author: ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/76 "2005-01-07T18:06:52Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > I’m not sure that the knowledge that 1/3 of diabetics don’t know they’re diabetic would be enough impetus to get me to follow a low-GI diet, though. I think it’d have me asking my doctor for a blood test instead, then following his instructions upon receipt of the results. Oh, agreed. As **Shoshana** points out, GI isn’t necessarily a reliable yardstick. Her real-world mileage varies considerably from what would be expected based solely on GI values. The reason I brought it up is that there are a lot of people who, imho, would greatly benefit from choosing whole grains over processed. Many diabetics know this, and are trying to follow ADA (or their dr’s) guidelines, and are being deliberately and shamelessly hoodwinked by vendors who intentionally give the impression that their “wheat” bread is meaningfully different from their white bread. In addition, literally millions of people who are diabetic but don’t know it yet are falling for the same trap, and this scam is particularly insidious for them, because they aren’t measuring their glucose or taking other precautions that they otherwise might if they knew about their condition. ---
### Author: ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/77 "2005-01-07T18:28:35Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > The reason I brought it up is that there are a lot of people who, imho, would greatly benefit from choosing whole grains over processed. Many diabetics know this, and are trying to follow ADA (or their dr’s) guidelines, and are being deliberately and shamelessly hoodwinked by vendors who intentionally give the impression that their “wheat” bread is meaningfully different from their white bread. In addition, literally millions of people who are diabetic but don’t know it yet are falling for the same trap, and this scam is particularly insidious for them, because they aren’t measuring their glucose or taking other precautions that they otherwise might if they knew about their condition. I absolutely agree. ---
### Author: ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone) #### Post date: [January 7, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/78 "2005-01-07T18:48:36Z")
Oh, I agree, too. I just want people to know that, by objective measures (and YMMV) pre-diabetics and crypto-diabetics may not be protecting their health as much with plain whole wheat flour as they might think they are. ---
### Author: ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam) #### Post date: [January 8, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589/79 "2005-01-08T12:16:13Z")
All I wanna know is, why the fuck can’t you get Pepperidge Farm bread in California? (I’m down to the last two slices of Pep. Farm bread I brought back from the 'Burgh. ☹ ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheat-whole-wheat/282589.md?page=3)