# Whedon idolatry is scaring me **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865 "2005-10-05T12:04:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/41 "2005-10-05T18:24:54Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Isn’t this the same board where I have seen members vigorously pimp-slapped for even very obvious “humorous” alterations using the quote function? Mods don’t follow board rules themselves, obviously. December misatributes a quote from someone who isn’t even on the boards? Ban him! Giraffe actually adds text when posting a quote from another poster? Clearly, it’s all in good fun. :rolleyes: What a load of crap. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/42 "2005-10-05T18:26:36Z")
What, do you think I’m just making things up? Here are some quotes from a discussion on the [CHUD forums](http://www2.chud.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1549946#post1549946) showing Joss Wheedon calls his fans “Browncoats” and ecourages their delusions: > [@](#): > > “But he seems to have a real animus against you Browncoats…We all know this remains an uphill battle. We all know that next weekend is crucial – and a lot of it will rest on us.” - Joss Whedon People think Serenity failed to be a blockbuster hit because of incompetence/conspiracy: > [@](#): > > “I think the film was a success and mostly suffered because of the little faith of theater owners.” > “The ads were there…they were the wrong ads. Could you imagine how well this film would have done with an advertising scheme similar to Blair Witch?” > "but I don’t think that Universal’s marketing was the least of the film’s problems. I think it was the biggest liability. " Serenity fans think they are part of a grassroots movement/are delusional about Serenity’s place in the world: > [@](#): > > "Inthe Fireflyverse, a “browncoat” is a soldier that fought for the right to be, well, free. They lost. And since that loss, they’ve been repeatedly kicked to the ground, pissed and shit on, and left for dead. And they keep…coming back…for more. Why try when it almost seems written in the stars that they can never win? > > Because their faith in what they know in their hearts to be true is too strong. I don’t point this out as a positive or a negative. Just as a fact. Because anybody who’s ever lost a promotion to someone younger but less talented, anybody who’s ever tried for a girl that was way out of his league, anybody who’s ever dealt with an insane teacher or administrator, anybody who ever tried shooting an independent feature, to sum up, anybody who has ever felt powerless knows what it is to be a Browncoat. And so many people identify with that so strongly, that Serenity, for them…for me, became their salvation. Finally, the powerless get their day! We’re going to take Hollywood by storm and change the way people look at movies!" > “Cheer up Browncoats. We’re even more attached to this property than ever. This is our own personal, metatextual Battle of Serenity Valley. Breathe it all in.” Serenity fans push their preferences on their unwitting and uniterested friends: > [@](#): > > “I can live with what was given to me, and as long as I live, I’m going to be recommending Serenity to whoever I can, hocking out my DVD to my film-school friends just so they know that no, not everything that comes out of Hollywood is crap.” > “I think that in this case, the movie might do better next weekend because lots of people who went to go see it this week might try to take their friends who initially rejected it this past weekend. I know I’m going to take my GF to go see it when I visit her in two weeks.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/43 "2005-10-05T18:31:54Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > What, do you think I’m just making things up? No, I think you’re overgeneralizing. One swallow does not make a spring, or whatever they say. Nor does silly, lighthearted, sarcastic commentary make a cult figure. And **Obsidian** , I’m pretty sure I know what moment you’re talking about, and I think that’s one of the lamest criticisms of a narrative moment I’ve heard in a long time. That moment was crucial on several levels to the story’s telling, and while there may have been a way to make it even better, I’ve not heard anyone make a suggestion that would be an improvement. Most of the alternate suggestions I’ve heard would seriously weaken the story’s structure and undermine some important character stuff that followed. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/44 "2005-10-05T18:34:09Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Mods don’t follow board rules themselves, obviously. December misatributes a quote from someone who isn’t even on the boards? Ban him! Giraffe actually adds text when posting a quote from another poster? Clearly, it’s all in good fun. :rolleyes: What a load of crap. As I said, I’d be happy to discuss the issue in another thread. I’m certainly open to the possibility that my understanding of the rules is incorrect. In any case, let’s not hijack this thread any further, kay? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/45 "2005-10-05T18:46:36Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > What, do you think I’m just making things up? No, I think you really do have one seriously maladjusted friend. You also seem to be unaware of the problems with drawing conclusions from small samples. And, based on the rest of the post I’m responding to, you seem to have problems with either understanding context, or with the use of metaphor. Probably both; its hard to tell at this point. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/46 "2005-10-05T18:59:23Z")
I liked _Serenity_. A lot. But last night, I saw [a film](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420291/) that had higher %s on Rotten Tomatoes and yet managed to eke out only 1 week in 1 dungeon of a theater in the entire SF Bay Area. I was told it’d be gone by Friday. I was only 1 of 2 people in the theater. And it’s a fantastic film. _Those_ are the kinds of movies that get buried by distributors, get piss-poor publicity, or a vote of zero confidence among the industry “suits”. _Those_ are the kinds of movies that need inflated first-week b.o. results to keep their heads afloat. _That_ is the kind of film that I’d be inclined to pay to see again as a financial show of support. I would love to see more smart, well-written genre films like _Serenity_, but those fans (whether they be few or many) who complain about conspiracies and industry unfairness need to get some perspective. This movie is a gift–nobody had a right to expect that someone would want to make a movie from a TV series that (for whatever reason) failed in the ratings and was undeniably a challenge to market (even despite the subsequent “cult” success that it gained in the pop culture margins). And yet here it is for them to enjoy. I hope they make more, but if they don’t, this film still represents a second chance most artistic endeavors aren’t lucky enough to get. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/47 "2005-10-05T19:22:43Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > I would love to see more smart, well-written genre films like _Serenity_, but those fans (whether they be few or many) who complain about conspiracies and industry unfairness need to get some perspective. This–so subtly different from what **even sven** said–is something I can agree with wholeheartedly. Well, the unfairness part is true, in some sense. It’s just not something worth complaining about. Business really isn’t set up to be fair, and nobody has suggested any model other than a free market by which $40 million movies can be made. So you take the good with the bad. “Fair” would mean that those $40 million would go toward feeding the hungry and sheltering the homeless. I’m sad that _Firefly_ got cancelled, and I’ll gladly believe that some executives’ ineptitude or petty politicking helped with the cancellation. But I have no delusions that boycotting Fox will make the slightest difference, or that supporting this movie is somehow an act of which Margaret Mead would be proud. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/48 "2005-10-05T19:37:43Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Joss Whedon is grateful to his fans for their support of Firefly and Serenity. Wow. > > The maniac. > > He’s just a step away from building a compound and hoarding guns, I’m sure. Sweet! I’ve already got the gun-hoarding thing down. Of course, I was doing that long before I saw firefly. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/49 "2005-10-05T19:46:09Z")
The shrill, panicked, spastic responses to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=338370), which posited the simple “who is Joss Whedon?” question and rocketed to over 40 replies in under an hour are enough to convince me that his fanbase is generally **batshit insane**. Look at the way they swarm around the OP, freaking out - “How can you NOT know who THE JOSS is? OMFG…ROLFMAOBBQNRBQKKK…He’s ONLY the GREATEST LIVING HUMAN OF ALL TIME…what’s wrong with you? What sort of asshole are you?” etc. etc. etc. When fans decide that compliments, good reviews, and great ratings _aren’t good enough_, there’s a serious level of ridiculousness going on. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/50 "2005-10-05T19:58:30Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > The shrill, panicked, spastic responses to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=338370), which posited the simple “who is Joss Whedon?” question and rocketed to over 40 replies in under an hour are enough to convince me that his fanbase is generally **batshit insane**. Look at the way they swarm around the OP, freaking out - “How can you NOT know who THE JOSS is? OMFG…ROLFMAOBBQNRBQKKK…He’s ONLY the GREATEST LIVING HUMAN OF ALL TIME…what’s wrong with you? What sort of asshole are you?” > > etc. etc. etc. > > When fans decide that compliments, good reviews, and great ratings _aren’t good enough_, there’s a serious level of ridiculousness going on. You must be new to this whole “reading” thing, right? Well, keep at it. You’ll figure out how it works soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/51 "2005-10-05T20:02:37Z")
You people are crazy. He’s my favourite writer and director. Unsurprisingly, if I enjoy something, be it book or TV show or movie, I will recommend it to my friends. I get no spirituality from his TV shows. Nor does anyone I know, and I speak as someone who can quote whole swaths of Buffy from memory. Do you have nothing else in your lives to worry about? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/52 "2005-10-05T20:04:56Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > The shrill, panicked, spastic responses to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=338370), which posited the simple “who is Joss Whedon?” question and rocketed to over 40 replies in under an hour are enough to convince me that his fanbase is generally **batshit insane**. Look at the way they swarm around the OP, freaking out - “How can you NOT know who THE JOSS is? OMFG…ROLFMAOBBQNRBQKKK…He’s ONLY the GREATEST LIVING HUMAN OF ALL TIME…what’s wrong with you? What sort of asshole are you?” > > etc. etc. etc. > > When fans decide that compliments, good reviews, and great ratings _aren’t good enough_, there’s a serious level of ridiculousness going on. Not the kind of asshole to misquote posts in another thread, obviously. The only one being vaguely jerkish, shrill or panicked over there is a non-Whedon fan complaining about all the threads started by other non-Whedon fans. Yes, there’s a little bit of surprise that one of the most prolific television writers/creators of the last decade is still an unknown in some circles, but I’m not surprised by that surprise. Wouldn’t you be surprised if someone hadn’t known Aaron Spelling in the 90’s? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/53 "2005-10-05T20:06:15Z")
Frankly, **VCO3** , your own posts on this and other topics (especially where you freaked out about Goths who don’t take themselves seriously) make me think you’re a real Nerf Dildo, so I’m not too upset about your judgments of me. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/54 "2005-10-05T20:09:07Z")
[Link to VC03’s dumbassery](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6648278&postcount=53). > [@](#): > > Silly Goths…I’m not sure what it is about these goths, but the whole thing just pisses me off. I love classic goths - give me a pretentious clove-smoking, Baudelaire-reading, Bauhaus-listening death-obsessed weirdo ANY day, but if I as much as pass a “Silly Goth” on the street, I just want to bash their brains in. It wasn’t quite dumb enough to start a Pit thread about. Actually, scratch that. It was plenty dumb enough; it just wasn’t interesting enough to start a Pit thread about. However, as long as he’s here… Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/55 "2005-10-05T20:09:36Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > The shrill, panicked, spastic responses to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=338370), which posited the simple “who is Joss Whedon?” question and rocketed to over 40 replies in under an hour are enough to convince me that his fanbase is generally **batshit insane**. Look at the way they swarm around the OP, freaking out - “How can you NOT know who THE JOSS is? OMFG…ROLFMAOBBQNRBQKKK…He’s ONLY the GREATEST LIVING HUMAN OF ALL TIME…what’s wrong with you? What sort of asshole are you?” Huh?? Did we read the same thread?? Here are some exact quotes: > [@Loopydude](#): > > Before this “Firefly” thing ignited, I didn’t know who the fuck he was, either. Now that I know he’s the “Buffy” guy, my knowledge about him now exceeds my interest in learning more. > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > “Am I the only person in the world who has no idea who Josh Whedon is?” > > Nope. And in learning who he is, I have to say, “Oh. Okay.” > [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](#): > > I’ve never heard of him. > [@VenusProbe](#): > > You are not the only one, before reading this thread I didn’t know who this Josh/Joss Whedon person is. > [@Anaamika](#): > > I’ve never seen Buffy and don’t intend to. I didn’t know who Joss was either, and I didn’t particularly care either. > > Serenity is pretty good, though I hear. And that’s just in the first 30 posts. Hardly a batshit crazy swarm. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/56 "2005-10-05T20:14:04Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The only one being vaguely jerkish, shrill or panicked over there is a non-Whedon fan complaining about all the threads started by other non-Whedon fans. Presumably being said non-Whedon fan, I’d like to point out that I was not complaining. I made a simple statement about mild annoyance and a particular fanboy blew the entire thing out of proportion, hijacked the thread, and took smug satisfaction in misinterpreting or outright ignoring specific points I’d made. I am not a shrill or panicky person, though I’m admittedly a bit jerkish at times. I do not believe this to be one of those times. The only jerkish behavior was the fans invading a neutral conversation about Whedon’s identity with a “you’re stupid for not knowing/liking him” attitude, and attacking anyone who disagrees with their fandom. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/57 "2005-10-05T20:18:16Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Huh?? Did we read the same thread?? Here are some exact quotes: > > And that’s just in the first 30 posts. Hardly a batshit crazy swarm. Well, to be fair, he’s talking about the _Whedon fans_ who responded to that thread. And those replies really were over the top: > [@Jayrot](#): > > Simples answer is that Buffy The Vampire Slayer (TV) is his claim to fame. > [@Rube E. Tewesday](#): > > Wow – you’ve been an important part of the SDMB this long, and don’t know that Joss Whedon is the creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, probably the most beloved Doper show of all time? > > Just further evidence for my theory that there is no such thing as common knowledge. > [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > He is the creator/writer/producer and director of several episodes of three much-loved TV shows: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, its spinoff Angel, and the sci-fi series Firefly. He most recently wrote, produced, and directed the movie Serenity, which is a continuation of Firefly. > > Before that, he was a successful writer for the sitcom Roseanne, and wrote several screenplays (occasionally getting credit, and occasionally being one of many anonymous “chefs”): his own Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie (which pales in comparison to the series), Toy Story, Speed, Twister, and Alien: Resurrection. > [@silenus](#): > > Don’t sweat it (as if you would anyway). I feel the same way about anime, circumcision, or any number of other things the board obsesses about. It’s a madhouse in there, I tell you! _ **A madhouse!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/58 "2005-10-05T20:24:21Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > I made a simple statement about mild annoyance and a particular fanboy blew the entire thing out of proportion, hijacked the thread, and took smug satisfaction in misinterpreting or outright ignoring specific points I’d made. Yeah, that’s what happened all right :). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/59 "2005-10-05T20:25:55Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Frankly, **VCO3** , your own posts on this and other topics (especially where you freaked out about Goths who don’t take themselves seriously) make me think you’re a real Nerf Dildo Is that a line from _Buffy_ or something? Sorry, I’m not a fan. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865/60 "2005-10-05T20:28:39Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > The only jerkish behavior was the fans invading a neutral conversation about Whedon’s identity with a “you’re stupid for not knowing/liking him” attitude, and attacking anyone who disagrees with their fandom. Apparently, you and **VCO3** read the same thread. Could either of you link to it? Because I haven’t seen anything like that in any of the Joss Whedon-themed threads I’ve found so far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whedon-idolatry-is-scaring-me/324865.md?page=4)