# Wheel of Time... lags **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2003, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122 "2003-01-12T09:21:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Deptford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Deptford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deptford)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/41 "2003-01-13T16:07:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Go alien \* > \*\*_The Malazan Book of the Fallen_ by Steven Erikson. Just finished the fourth part. Dark and complex (very complex) but very good. I have no idea when it’s likely to finish, but at least the plot is moving. \*\* A hearty “I second that” for the Malazan books. Best new fantasy series i’ve read for years. As for Robert Jordan , i made it as far as Book 6.Got about 150 pages in. Realised i couldn’t remember who half of these people were and what was going on, and that frankly i didn’t really care.Put it down and i’ve never looked at another since. ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/42 "2003-01-13T16:55:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Primaflora \* > \*\* Somebody recommend me something worth reading in the interim. Please? \*\* \*World Book Encyclopaedia? War and Peace? Moby Dick? The Phone Book?\* But a serious answer to your question: _The Camulod Chronicles,_ by Jack Whyte. It’s the Arthurian legend, fictionalised as if it were actual history. It begins with Arthur’s great-grandfathers as the main characters in Roman-occupied Britain in \* The Skystone\*. The second book, _The Singing Sword,_ chronicles, as a minor point but a major event, the creation of Excalibur. the series takes all of the magic out of the King Arthur we know, but leaving in all of the events that we consider “traditional.” And Whyte’s writing style is beautiful; descriptive, without being so detailed that it gets annoying. So far there are seven books out there, no news as to when the next is coming. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/43 "2003-01-13T19:40:58Z")
What is this George R.R. Martin series you speak of? ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/44 "2003-01-13T20:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*Is it possible to be angry with an author for wasting the potential of his literary world without having read a single one of the novels in question? > > I just got _The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time_ on a Christmas bookstore gift certificate[sup]1[/sup], and his setting seems complex and fascinating. Very nice history, nice current political geography, interesting social/cultural differences and interactions. It seems like the kind of fantasy world that has incredible potential and promise. \*\* Yes. This was one of the strengths of the books. > [@](#): > > \*\*But every single thing I read about the actual novels indicates that Jordan is wasting that potential by refusing to take the story anywhere. What should be an incredible blending of narrative and setting is mostly a great big lump of boredom and repetition. Despite my interest in the setting of the series, I’m not particularly inclined to pick up and read the actual novels. It’s sad, really. \*\* It is sad. He created a cool universe and some characters that were initally interesting. The story moved pretty well for the first few books…and it was a plot that was complex and involving. But what was once a positive soon turned into a huge negative. The plot is now so complex and there are so many threads that it had bogged down to a halt. I fully expect it to start moving in reverse soon. And with so many pages written, his flaws as a writer become more & more obvious. Too much description, he can’t write a believable female character, too many sniffs, too much braid pulling, an obsession with boobs… ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/45 "2003-01-13T20:54:12Z")
**Primaflora** , another fantasy suggestion _The Briar King_ by Greg Keyes. It just came out. It has been suggested that Harriet Jordan is in the pay of Tom Doherty Assoc. (Tor Books). I doubt that, can anyone substantiate this as fact? **Dante** , George R.R. Martin’s series began with “A Game of Thrones” continued with “A Clash of Kings” and "A Storm of Swords. His latest book is scheduled for release April 2003 (it will be called A Feast for Crows). I wouldn’t call it a rumor, not when Random House has the scheduled release date up on their site. > **[A Feast for Crows (HBO Tie-in Edition): A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Four by...](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/isbn/9780553801507/)** > > THE BOOK BEHIND THE FOURTH SEASON OF THE ACCLAIMED HBO SERIES GAME OF THRONES   A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE: BOOK FOUR   After centuries of bitter strife, the seven powers dividing the land have... That said, major new releases by fantasy authors can and do get pushed back. (Case in point, the latest Jordan was scheduled for November). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/46 "2003-01-13T22:30:22Z")
According to [George RR Marting](http://www.georgerrmartin.com/) himself, the next book isn’t done, he doesn’t know when it will be done, and he doesn’t know where [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) got their release date or page count. Amazon is kind of notorious for doing this so as to get as many preorders as they can. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/47 "2003-01-14T02:25:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hello Again \* > [ > > It has been suggested that Harriet Jordan is in the pay of Tom Doherty Assoc. (Tor Books). I doubt that, can anyone substantiate this as fact? > > \*\* [Yes.](http://david-drake.com/bridgehead.html) It’s about halfway down the page; just search for “McDougal”. To those who have noted that Jordan is wasting a good seting on badwriting: tell me about it. My first exposure to RJ was via the “Legends” anthology edited by Robert Silverberg - I read Silverberg’s introduction to Jordan’s contribution, which was basically a masterful recap of the conceits behind the setting, and I was hooked enough to read the actual story; once I read that, I hunted up the first volume of the series proper. He sets up a damn good story in the early volumes, but by volume 6, he completely abandons it. It’s a pity I kept reading as long as I did, but it was because of that setup that I did so. ---
**Author:** ![UWmite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UWmite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UWmite)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/48 "2003-01-14T04:18:03Z")
I bought it expecting to be disapointed, and well, I was. Even less of a plot than _Winter’s Heart_, fer chrissakes. All the scheming is supposed to be rather subtle even for the characters inimately involved with the schemes, so how the heck am I supposed to figure out what’s going on? I can’t even remember who the known darkfriends are! I will keep reading them though, if only because I’ve invested so much time into the series already. Luckily I got _The Silmarillion_ for Christmas. Now here’s an epic I won’t drown in. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/49 "2003-01-14T05:25:08Z")
Thanks for all the suggestions! I’ve read some of them, some of them are not yet available here but I’ll keep looking. I did get the latest J V Jones as heavily recommened by our mate Jordan on the back cover from the library this morning but I’m not all that hopeful it will be any good. Everything recommended was of course out. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/50 "2003-01-14T06:08:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UWmite \* > \*\*I bought it expecting to be disapointed, and well, I was. Even less of a plot than _Winter’s Heart_, fer chrissakes. \*\* Whatever its faults, at least something happened in _Winter’s Heart_ for the first time in several books…something finally got accomplished. I was hoping the story was back on the rails. Alas, judging by the comments & reviews, that was a false hope. I’ll wait for the paperback. Or not. > [@](#): > > **All the scheming is supposed to be rather subtle even for the characters inimately involved with the schemes, so how the heck am I supposed to figure out what’s going on? I can’t even remember who the known darkfriends are!** Another reason I’m not rushing out to buy the book. I can’t keep track of the play at all anymore. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/51 "2003-01-14T09:22:36Z")
One of the things that really pisses me off about Jordan is his tendency to describe what little pivotal events there are in flashback form, at least later in the series. In one of the books, we only discover the outcome of a huge battle (outside Cairhien I think) after the fact, as Mat sits at a cookfire thinking about how he vanquished the mad Aiel leader. I got disgusted with the series after finishing Path of Daggers. It doesn’t even have a pretense of a climax. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/52 "2003-01-14T16:04:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Primaflora \* > \*\*I’ve read all the Robin Hobb books. Liked them :). > > \*\* I finished the first book in a series by Ivan Irvine. Volume 1 of The View From the Mirror. It is called _A Shadow On The Glass_. I like it so far. I believe I saw 4 books of it at B&N. I would recommend it, It has potential at least. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/53 "2003-01-14T16:15:10Z")
I attempted to read the first WOT book three times and never made it past page 50. My god, it was like watching a painting of a guy watching paint dry dry. The reason I tried three times was because all these friends of mine kept telling me how good it was, but absolutely nothing about it grabbed me at all. I finally gave the stupid book away to someone else who had heard how good it was. Most of those same friends who recommended it have given up on it. A few are still reading out of habit more than anything else. I’ve yet to hear from anyone who is actually reading and enjoying them. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/54 "2003-01-14T18:54:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UWmite \* > **All the scheming is supposed to be rather subtle even for the characters inimately involved with the schemes, so how the heck am I supposed to figure out what’s going on? I can’t even remember who the known darkfriends are!** Every time a new book is coming out, I sit down and read the old ones over again. For those of you keeping score at home, that means I’ve read EotW 9 times, TGH 8 times, TDR 7 times, and so on. I can’t keep track either. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UWmite \* > **I will keep reading them though, if only because I’ve invested so much time into the series already.** I feel your pain. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/55 "2003-01-14T19:08:52Z")
Stopped after reading Fires of Heaven, never looked back. Pity, it came so highly recommended. My recommendation to anyone in the future will be to stop reading one book before I did. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/56 "2003-01-14T19:11:36Z")
a friend of mine has all the books and gave me the first one. I read it and enjoyed it. Then I saw all the other books, and how long they were… I’m glad I stopped when I did. (I’ll have to look up some of the other books mentioned here 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/57 "2003-01-14T19:18:33Z")
Just want to put in a good word for one of my favorite fantasy novels while I’m here and people are interested in other books to read while staying away from Jordan. Check out Blue Moon Rising by Simon Green. It’s not your typical fantasy novel, more like “The Simpsons” of fantasy novels, but I loved it and everyone else I’ve recommended it to liked it as well. Green has written tons of books, notably the Deathstalker series, but I haven’t read anything beyond the novels set in the world of Blue Moon Rising so I can’t vouch for them. If he carried the style over then I’d probably like them too. Hmm, that’s an idea for library day this week… Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/58 "2003-01-14T19:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > \*\*I’ve yet to hear from anyone who is actually reading and enjoying them. \*\* This is just flat out a really sad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/59 "2003-01-14T22:01:57Z")
Epithemus, it’s Ian Irvine and he’s an Australian author. I didn’t like the two of his I tried, I wanted to give them a decent editing as the style was too flowery for me. They are very popular though so it was a personal response I think. Simon Green’s good, what I’ve read of his. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122/60 "2003-01-15T13:02:40Z")
I’m also in the camp of fans that are losing interest. I didn’t rush out and buy it as soon as it was available, and now that I am reading it, I feel no urge to devour it as I did some of the other books. I think I’m only on like page 300 something after 4 days…which is totally unlike me. While waiting for the latest to come out, I found a site that had a list of questions they had submitted for RJ to answer. [Here’s the link](http://www.dragonmount.com/Interviews/2002-12-09_rj.aspx). I found that he came across as very comptentouse of his fans. Perhaps the way he came across has sullied the books a bit for me, but I have almost no enthusiasm for the series any more. Which really is a shame, as I did truely enjoy it, and think it had more potential than anything else I’ve read in a long time. Oh well…I’ll finish this one, and as others have said, if there are only 2 or 3 more in the series, I’ll probably continue to read them, but I won’t be in line the first day to pick one up. Oh, and like **Dante** , I sit down and re-read the entire series just before the next one comes out, although he screwed me up by pushing back the release date. So while I can keep track of most of the storyline, there are far too many characters with names that are similar. I tend to get some of the minor plot lines confused, as I can’t tell one character from the next. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-of-time-lags/148122.md?page=4)