# Wheel running in the wild **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [January 28, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500 "2025-01-28T00:17:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/1 "2025-01-28T00:17:41Z")
I just saw this 2014 experiment. Dutch scientists set up a hamster/mouse wheel in the wild, and then observed what happened. (for part of the experiment, there was food nearby to attract them). The answer: > The observations showed that feral mice ran in the wheels year-round, steadily increasing in late spring and peaking in summer in the green urban area, while increasing in mid-to-late summer in the dunes, reaching a peak late in autumn (see the electronic supplementary material, figure S1_a,b_ ). Some animals seem to use the wheel unintentionally, but mice and some shrews, rats and frogs were seen to leave the wheel and then enter it again within minutes in order to continue wheel running. My favorite part: > Mice ran for more than 1 min in 20% of the cases, with a maximum duration of 18 min. 18 minutes! [https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2014.0210](https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2014.0210) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/2 "2025-01-28T00:38:46Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > 18 minutes! You gots to stay ahead of the predators! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/3 "2025-01-28T01:39:58Z")
Made me think of [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PGNiXGX2nLU/maxresdefault.jpg "Dead Or Alive - You Spin Me Round (Like a Record) (Official Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNiXGX2nLU) which in turn triggered this: **[xkcd: Centrifugal Force](https://xkcd.com/123/)** ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/4 "2025-01-28T01:46:46Z")
There’s almost no conceivable way that the 18-minute mouse _wasn’t_ doping. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/5 "2025-01-28T01:53:06Z")
“Please, god, how do I get off this thing!?” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/6 "2025-01-28T02:29:04Z")
That may be more right than you suspect. When running from a predator, the best move is to run in a straight line starting with the predator dead astern. Any curving or turning after that just affords the predator a chance to “cut the corner” and close on you. Which is why many prey animals spooked by cars (or trains) will run along the road, not off to the side and instant safety. You know you’re confined to the road, but they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![X.L.Lent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a5b964/32.png) [@X.L.Lent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X.L.Lent)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/7 "2025-01-28T05:10:57Z")
A new source of green energy has been discovered! Just put several thousand wheels with tiny generators out in the wilderness and we can reduce our use of fossil fuels! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/8 "2025-01-28T14:47:17Z")
“Put _two_ hamsters in every wheel. …But this time put the males with the males and females with the females!” – Mad magazine parody _Voyage to see what’s on the Bottom_ circa 1964 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/9 "2025-01-28T14:50:59Z")
That gives a whole new meaning to the wheeling idea of chasing tail. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/10 "2025-01-28T15:12:00Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > When running from a predator, the best move is to run in a straight line starting with the predator dead astern. I caught a mouse in a live trap, and released him at a nearby lake. He leaped in parabolas, three feet in the X axis with an altitude of eight inches on the Y axis. Three got him safely to tree roots. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/11 "2025-01-28T16:08:58Z")
I was speaking of the 2D case. I bet your mouse traveled in a straight line across the ground. That their fastest means of running involves leaping rather than scampering is an implementation detail. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/12 "2025-01-28T16:23:18Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > When running from a predator, the best move is to run in a straight line starting with the predator dead astern. Any curving or turning after that just affords the predator a chance to “cut the corner” and close on you. This is probably the best strategy until the predator nearly closes the gap. At that point, the prey animal might be able to open the gap a bit by making an occasional sudden turn and relying on the fact that the predator’s response must necessarily be delayed by some milliseconds, resulting in the predator overshooting the prey’s turn and having to run on a _longer_ path than the prey in order to get back on a pursuit path. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/13 "2025-01-28T16:31:40Z")
Yup. Once the distance between predator and prey is down close to the predator’s turning radius, prey with an even smaller turning radius can force the predator to overshoot and hence travel a longer distance. The predator’s reaction time amplifies the effect. If for some reason the prey doesn’t have a smaller turning radius than the predator, that trick won’t work to the prey’s advantage. Their best move is to recognize when the predator is approaching their own turn radius, then turn to face and counterattack as best they can. Like hippo pursued by leopard or hyena. Run while you can, try to out-stomp them if you can’t. Likewise a last ditch leap sideways just as the predator pounces is another good prey tactic that’s not just a simple straight-line flee. You probably won’t be surprised to hear that airplane combat (“dogfighting”) operates on these same principles, just extended to 3D. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/14 "2025-01-28T19:28:04Z")
My experience with numerous pet rats is that some rats like running in a wheel more than others do. Some will spend minutes at a time running in it, others just view it as a handy place to hide their food. Generally, females seem to like wheel running more than males do, but females in general are more active than males, especially as adults. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/15 "2025-01-28T19:32:40Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You probably won’t be surprised to hear that airplane combat (“dogfighting”) operates on these same principles, just extended to 3D I remember reading about the history of Sidewinder missiles. As they got better they evolved from “chasing the ball of fire” to “cutting across the corner”. Bam! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/16 "2025-01-28T20:20:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I was speaking of the 2D case. I bet your mouse traveled in a straight line across the ground. That their fastest means of running involves leaping rather than scampering is an implementation detail. Indeed. I had the trap half way open when he ran up my sleeve and began parabolaing straight towards a tree. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/17 "2025-01-28T20:42:11Z")
That dude was _motivated!_ 😁 ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheel-running-in-the-wild/1013500/18 "2025-01-28T23:23:38Z")
To the tune of “[**Spinning Wheel**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFEewD4EVwU)” from Blood, Sweat & Tears Hey, all you rodents – white or brown Forest Wheel got to go 'round Get here on the double Get you taut and thin Burn a hundred KCals Fling some urine at your kin Got no drywall, we’re not near any homes Forest Wheel harden your bones Push aside your brethren Get another turn Light some D-Con Four Gone Watch that Orkin jagoff burn Get a rise from those Keebler guys In their sylvan junk food hideaway Help me find the ‘Rodent Fitness’ sign It’s anodyne my quads are fine There’s no stinky cheeses that’s the deal