# When a cop is doing a George Floyd in front of you, what should be the appropriate response? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334 "2020-06-10T00:22:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/41 "2021-05-18T17:09:33Z")
Threatening the officer in any way is totally the wrong thing to do because the law states that, if the police officer can show he is in fear of his life, he can pretty much do what he wants. He could probably kill him and you and get a pass. In fact, they tried to float that in the Floyd incident, but the crowd was well behaved. They couldn’t make that work. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/42 "2021-05-18T17:18:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Sure, perhaps in retrospect, one can say that what was happening to George Floyd was a crime. But standing in front of a uniformed officer, are you prepared to challenge their judgement of the situation? Do you know what is going on? Do you know for sure that the police officer is in the wrong? I can’t think of any circumstances that would justify a police officer choking a detained suspect to death. If George Floyd had just killed an entire classroom full of children, he still should have been taken into custody and stood trial. Nobody should get murdered by the police, no matter what their crime is. The police can be justified in using force to take a suspect into custody or to stop somebody from committing a crime. In extreme cases, that can go all the way to the level of killing somebody. But that is no justification for what happened to Floyd. He had been arrested and detained. There was no further need to choke him and no justification for doing so. Derek Chauvin stopped being a cop and became a criminal when he choked George Floyd to death. eta: If you are in a situation where what’s happening isn’t as clear, you should still act as a witness and record events. If it turns out the police are acting properly, you’ve done no harm by recording their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/43 "2021-05-18T17:18:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > How do you live with yourself saying “Oh, some guy just got murdered, and all I did was film it with my cell phone.” How do you know it’s a murder when it’s happening? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/44 "2021-05-18T17:23:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I can’t think of any circumstances that would justify a police officer choking a detained suspect to death. If George Floyd had just killed an entire classroom full of children, he still should have been taken into custody and stood trial. Nobody should get murdered by the police, no matter what their crime is. > > The police can be justified in using force to take a suspect into custody or to stop somebody from committing a crime. In extreme cases, that can go all the way to the level of killing somebody. But that is no justification for what happened to Floyd. He had been arrested and detained. There was no further need to choke him and no justification for doing so. Derek Chauvin stopped being a cop and became a criminal when he choked George Floyd to death. Sure. But how do you, as a bystander, evaluate the situation and decide when you “ought” to physically attack the police? I don’t think @Dewey_Finn was defending Derek Chauvin, but rather stating that the lines between “appropriate use of force”, “inappropriate but non-life threatening use of force”, “appropriate deadly force,” and “inappropriate deadly force” are not always simple to draw in the moment from the perspective of an observer who is deciding whether or not to physically attack the police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/45 "2021-05-18T17:24:49Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Sure. But how do you, as a bystander, evaluate the situation and decide when you “ought” to physically attack the police? I don’t think @Dewey_Finn was defending Derek Chauvin, but rather stating that the lines between “appropriate use of force”, “inappropriate but non-life threatening use of force”, “appropriate deadly force,” and “inappropriate deadly force” are not always simple to draw in the moment from the perspective of an observer who is deciding whether or not to physically attack the police officer. As I’ve said, I don’t recommend physically interfering with the police. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/46 "2021-05-18T17:47:17Z")
Filming isn’t doing nothing. Each person has to decide how much of a hero they want to be, but filming and communicating to the officers that you intend to bring them to justice is something. In the case of George Floyd, the bystanders didn’t save George Floyd, but they might have saved others from a similar fate in the future by helping bring the officers to justice. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/47 "2021-05-18T17:50:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My point isn’t some sort of glorious rescue, it’s more the idea that filming is the best anyone can do in that situation. That seems unconscionable to me. How do you live with yourself saying “Oh, some guy just got murdered, and all I did was film it with my cell phone.” Or didn’t even do that and just watched? I expect all of those witnesses on the sidewalk are psychologically scarred for life. But the alternative was what? Chauvin’s got a knee on Floyd’s neck. You’re standing on the sidewalk with all the other bystanders. There are **three** other officers on the scene who are armed with chemicals, bullets, and batons, and they have nothing better to do than paint the street with your blood if you dare to step a foot off of that sidewalk. Do you really believe you have a chance of even laying a finger on Chauvin? Moreover, _when_ do you intervene? At what point are you sure enough about this being a murder-in-progress that you are willing to risk your own life, limb, and freedom just to be able to console yourself with “well, at least I tried” (because, per the previous paragraph, you won’t succeed)? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/48 "2021-05-18T18:17:00Z")
Talk me through what you would have done. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/49 "2021-05-18T18:47:25Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > If someone physically assaults a police officer, if someone rushes an officer and tries to stop that cop from doing something, that officer will be legally justified in using massive, perhaps even lethal, force to stop that person. The justification to use force depends on what the officer is doing; they don’t have cart blanch to just rape pillage and murder while in uniform (though obviously some seem to believe they do). There seems to be a general fear among people that if you touch a cop you will be executed on the spot or automatically thrown in jail for life. It’s this fear that allows and encourages evil people in uniform to do what they do. If I were to go into a neighborhood where I was obviously an outsider, grab one of their own, and start torturing them in the middle of the street, I’d expect their companions to come up to me and start stomping my head in to make me stop. That’s normal human behavior. Why we try to repress that instinct when the outsideer wears a blue shirt is beyond me. I imagine myself as the victim getting slowly killed and watching the crowd around me. I think I’d want at least one of those people filming my execution to do something more. Run up, kick the guy in the back of the head, then run away. Are his companions all going to leave him to chase you down? If I were one of the filmers, I just can’t hep but think that I’d be haunted for the rest of my life just standing there and casually filming a crime saying to myself “better you than me”. What would I say to the family when they ask “why didn’t anybody DO anything?” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/50 "2021-05-18T19:00:51Z")
> [@mmmiiikkkeee](#): > > There seems to be a general fear among people that if you touch a cop you will be executed on the spot or automatically thrown in jail for life. It’s this fear that allows and encourages evil people in uniform to do what they do. I think the fear is that the cop will include you in his violent response if you interfere with the violence he is already committing. And that afterwards he will offer some fabricated excuse to justify his actions. And that his fellow officers will back up his story out of a sense of solidarity. And that a lot of the public will choose to believe the police version of events if you and the other victims of the violence are members of a group people are worried about. I don’t feel any of the above are unrealistic fears. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/51 "2021-05-18T19:01:05Z")
Sure- and that’s what I’m saying. Go confront the cops, up close and personal. Get in their face. Push a little bit. Maybe a lot. It’s worth getting your ass seriously kicked over, instead of letting someone else get murdered. Don’t just stand there idly and film. Yeah, it’s evidence, but are you going to say you did everything you could, in the case that it goes south? When someone’s saying “I can’t breathe” repeatedly, even if you don’t know it’s a murder, you have a moral obligation to do your best to stop that, if only so that person gets a chance to be tried. It’s not the cops’ position to be judge, jury and executioner, and nor do they get absolute carte blanche in how they handle things either- slowly murdering someone by suffocation is not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/52 "2021-05-18T19:03:52Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure- and that’s what I’m saying. Go confront the cops, up close and personal. Get in their face. Push a little bit. Maybe a lot. It’s worth getting your ass seriously kicked over, instead of letting someone else get murdered. I stand by my belief that recording the incident is more likely to save the victim than attempting to physically intervene is. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/53 "2021-05-18T19:19:07Z")
> [@mmmiiikkkeee](#): > > The justification to use force depends on what the officer is doing; they don’t have cart blanch to just rape pillage and murder while in uniform (though obviously some seem to believe they do). There seems to be a general fear among people that if you touch a cop you will be executed on the spot or automatically thrown in jail for life. It’s this fear that allows and encourages evil people in uniform to do what they do. If he’s already comfortable with casually murdering a proned-out, handcuffed Floyd, why do you imagine he’ll apply only reasonable force when he turns his attentions toward you? Why do you think you would not also end up proned out with a blue-clad knee on your neck? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the fear is that the cop will include you in his violent response if you interfere with the violence he is already committing. And that afterwards he will offer some fabricated excuse to justify his actions. And that his fellow officers will back up his story out of a sense of solidarity. And that a lot of the public will choose to believe the police version of events if you and the other victims of the violence are members of a group people are worried about. Especially if nobody is getting it on video. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/54 "2021-05-18T20:42:23Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Do you know for sure that the police officer is in the wrong? I had the automatic assumption of police rightness handily whipped out of me in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/55 "2021-05-18T20:48:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The obvious, but most dicey, course of action seems to be to just physically yank the cop off of the guy’s neck, and let the legal consequences sort themselves out later. Oh no. There is no way that works out well for you. Handcuffs, a beating, jail, bail, court- time, many days off work, no, do not offer violence to a police officer. Film it, yell, and call 911, and tell the operator what is happening. Stay a good distance. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/56 "2021-05-18T20:53:52Z")
Floyd did have a long history of minor crimes, he had been convicted of eight crimes,including drug possession, theft, and trespass. OTOH there is evidence he was trying to turn his life around. If that asshole Chauvin had not actually killed Floyd, likely there would have been little repercussions. > **[Background Check: Investigating George Floyd’s Criminal Record](https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floyd-criminal-record/)** > > The question of past arrests often surfaces among people who want to rationalize police officers' actions when Black men are killed in custody. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/57 "2021-05-18T20:57:29Z")
The key word is “potentially”. If the perp/victim does _not_ die, then of course the PD will argue that the officers activities were legal and reasonable. See, if no death occurs, then it would be hard to prove you were saving a life. No, never assault a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/58 "2021-05-18T21:01:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Pretty sure that if I was on the ground, getting choked to death by a cop’s knee, I’d sure want someone to do something more than just film it… > > That video isn’t going to make a person any less dead after the fact. What a video of the police encounter might do is to show the officers were lying about the events. I think that’s been the case for some of the recent police deaths, such as that of [Walter Scott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Walter_Scott). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/59 "2021-05-18T21:05:42Z")
It is all well and good to _say_ you would assault the officer, it is quite a bit different to _actually do it._ ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334/60 "2021-05-18T21:21:15Z")
If you are alone, it seems a stretch to think that you could do something to stop a group of armed cops. If there is one squad car surrounded by 1000 protesters, things are different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-a-cop-is-doing-a-george-floyd-in-front-of-you-what-should-be-the-appropriate-response/855334.md?page=4)