When a police officer asks “are you carrying?”

I would have patted my tummy and said, "Nope, no thanks, I treasure my freedom! :smiling_imp:

There’s some truth to your sarcasm. I’ve talked to police who prefer dealing with CCW holders. They already know before they get out of the car if a person has a license to carry. And it’s required to present the license upon contact with the officer and declare if you’re carrying.

The thread is so uniquely American. Here in Canada, if a police officer who pulled me over asked “are you carrying?” (not that they ever would ask such a question) I would respond, “no, I’m just sitting here in the driver’s seat – I’m obviously not ‘carrying’ anything!” :smiley: What a difference in gun culture a border makes!

Further to the killing of Christian Glass:

  • the officer who fired the shot is charged with 2nd degree murder;
  • the officer’s supervisor has reached a plea agreement;
  • six other officers on the scene have been charged with various offences;
  • the county has reached a civil settlement for wrongful killing with Christian’s parents, amounting to $19 million.

Apparently the criminal and civil courts don’t see Glass as an « idiot » for being killed after calling 911 because he was scared and needed help.

Not sure how it works up there, but the fact that he was wrongfully killed does not necessarily establish that he was not an idiot.

Conversely, being an “idiot” is generally not considered a capital offense.

I often wonder at the thought process (such as there is one) of people who feel the police are justified in taking lethal action simply because someone is not as compliant as they should be or the police “feel threatened”. It’s almost as if they have this extreme aversion to anything that is outside of what they consider “normal”.

I’d almost feel sad for someone like that who seems so terrified at anything outside of their narrow understanding of the world if they weren’t so dangerous and moronic.

The young man seemed to be having some sort of anxiety attack or some other mental difficulties. It’s not like he was an aggressive idiot who thought it was a good idea to tangle with the cops. This might have gone a lot differently if the police officers on the scene took their time to reassure Glass that everything was okay and allowed him to exit the vehicle on his own when he was ready.

Idiot seems to be somewhat of a trigger word for some folk around here. i didn’t say he was an aggressive idiot - just an idiot. Would folk would prefer if I said he “acted unwisely” or “exercised poor judgment”? I’m not sure those are sufficiently different to forestall the indignation. Should we all now avoid uttering the “i-word”?

As I stated in this thread, the cops’ explanation was unbelievable. And I’m pretty sure elsewhere I stated that the cops had zero justification for doing anything other than just waiting him out - or calling for a social worker/counselor.

Perhaps I overuse the word idiot when referring to someone who exercises poor judgment or contributes to their misfortune. But for someone to consider that word usage sufficiently significant to resurrect it 9 months later? :roll_eyes:

Words like idiot, imbecile, and moron used to be more polite words we might use to describe people who were mentally slow to various degrees. I once read an article from 1927 where the author was defending the intelligence of a man who was lynched by refuting claims that he was an idiot and was instead a moron. Even accounting for the fact that that the Straight Dope demographic skews older, as far as those words being polite are concerned, that ship sailed before most of us were born. To answer your question: Yes, you should avoid using the word idiot unless you’re deliberately insulting someone. At least if you’re trying to communicate clearly.

Getting back to the question of how it’s done “up here”, and related to the topic of the thread, if a person calls 911 for help because their car is stuck on a road at midnight, they’re scared, and the 911 operator tells the police contact that the person might be having a mental break-down of some sort, I would hope that the response would not be to send over half a dozen police officers, with guns drawn, who break the windows of the car, beanbag the person who called for help, tase the person who called for help, and then shoot dead the person who called for help.

At least, I hope that would not happen “up here”.

This was your original statement:

If you don’t see how this implies that he is to blame for his death, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Yes, he acted irrationally. That is what people who are having panic attacks do. Since when is it acceptable to execute a man in his car because he dared to jave a panic attack?

The man in NZ was murdered, plain and simple. The fact that he may have acted irrationally in the moments that led up to his death is irrelevant, because none of his irrational actions even come close to justifying his killing.

If your point is that being murdered by a police officer is a forseeable consequence of acting irrationally around a police officer in the US, in the same way that being eaten is a forseeable consequence of jumping into a lion exhibit at the zoo, then you are unfortunately correct; but it is a very sad state of affairs if you hold police officers to the same standard that you hold wild, carnivorous beasts.

It’s also the reason why cops should not be the first responders to a mental health crisis. Or if they arrive and find one, they need to back off and leave it to a professional.

That’s like calling a pest exterminator when your dog is having a medical crisis.

My wife, a clinical social worker, was the clinical director at a substance abuse facility. Just about every week she’d have to talk to some, usually young, cop, who showed up with an arrest warrant for one of the patients. And then would typically get salty and accuse her of obstruction when she said that she was legally forbidden from confirming whether or not the person was a patient - thanks to HIPPA, absolutely true. But six times out of ten, the cop would get stroppy, and she had to wait while he called a supervisor, who explained the law.

In my experience, cops tend to run to dickheadedness because the skillset needed to be an effective police officer - the ability to quickly impose control on a chaotic situation - overlaps very easily with self-importance and inflexibility. Got to be a constant, subtle battle to keep your head out of your ass when you’re wearing a badge and gun.

The first is something we have to accept- “he’s got a knife and is acting crazy, I’m afraid” they have to send cops. But yeah, they need a mental health professional back up for those things.

Calling the cops and expecting them to do anything to help does seem to be unwise, yes.

Or, more often, the ability to quickly impose chaos on a controlled situation.

I had a terrible incident where a man attempted suicide by throwing himself under my car.

He survived, thank god, with only minor injuries. Fortunately for him I had slowed down significantly after seeing him acting erratically.

The local farmers were on it immediately. I had a bunch of people with me, the victim had a first aid volunteer with him.

The police were amazing. They handled my side by giving me a lift to the station, and a trauma counselor.

They handled his side with an ambulance and a trauma counselor. We have universal health care here, so he entered psych care. I followed up.

This is the difference between the USA and the rest of the world. In South Africa, there are a shit-ton of guns, both legal and illegal. Probably most of the farmers who stopped were armed or had a weapon in the car or at home.

But the police response is to help the poor guy who has decided to try to end his life, help me, the guy who was traumatized by the event.

“To protect and serve” includes the words protect, and serve. US cops do not seem to get that.

No one got shot. In a complex situation, in an area where racial tension is real, no one got shot. Fuck, USA, you can do better.

I think he’s an idiot because I think anyone is an idiot for calling 911 for car trouble problems, like when people call 911 when they popped a tire and need it replaced.

Saw a comedian on TV the other day who said those words are in “” on police cars to indicate they are intended sarcastically! :wink:

I have had nothing but helpful responses.

However- YMVV

I’ve had a few traffic stops over the years. I roll down my window, and then keep my hands on the steering wheel in plain view as the officer approaches the car. When they get to my window, I tell them I’m licensed for carry, let them know where the gun is in my vehicle, and point out that I don’t need to reach anywhere near it during our transaction. Yeah, they’re supposed to be able to tell from running my plates, I don’t take any chances. Never had one ask to see my carry license, never had one ask me to surrender the gun, never asked me to step out of the vehicle. State of Oregon, BTW, liberal side of the state.