# When and how did green grapes get so big and plump and tight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 22, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949 "2018-11-22T16:56:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/1 "2018-11-22T16:56:12Z")
Lately at the grocery store the green grapes have been remarkably big — with lengths about 1.5”, or about the same as the diameter of a ping pong ball; and they are plump, shaped similar to a watermelon (much smaller of course); and they are tight — with tight skin, and the inside “meat” is firm and perky. I remember being a kid in the 1970s and my parents getting excited over Thompson seedless grapes, at 1 to 2 grams per. But today’s grapes are so much bigger, it’s like comparing Arnold Schwarzenegger to his “twin brother” Danny DeVito in the 1988 comedy movie _Twins_ ([gImages](https://goo.gl/Rm4dqt)). I searched this and found this NPR article, [We Like 'Em Big And Juicy: How Our Table Grapes Got So Fat](https://goo.gl/PFgZ1b), that describes some techniques — **girdling** of the phloem while keeping the xylem unimpeded, a practice dating at least as far back as Aristotle‘s successor, Theophrastus, and mentioned by Shakespeare; and **hormone therapy with gibberellic acid** ; and **Autumn King grapes**. > [@](#): > > A few years ago, the Autumn King variety was released, putting hormone-treated Thompson seedless to shame. Fidelibus says the King can produce round, plump grapes weighing nearly 10 grams each 10 grams each! Is there anything else going on here besides what’s mentioned in that article? That article is dated Mar 2013 so it’s getting close to six years old. There might be newer techniques. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/2 "2018-11-22T17:36:16Z")
And what will they be like in another 50 years? The size of plums, maybe? A decent snack might consist of 1 or 2 grapes? I guess the larger they are, the better they sell? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/3 "2018-11-23T01:50:51Z")
> [@Sarabellum](#): > > I guess the larger they are, the better they sell? Well, the larger they are, the higher the percentage of inside fruit pulp to outside skin you have. And since the inside is the most desirable part, that’s a better ratio. (For eating. Wine grapes might want more skin & moisture.) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/4 "2018-11-23T01:58:58Z")
> [@Sarabellum](#): > > And what will they be like in another 50 years? The size of plums, maybe? A decent snack might consist of 1 or 2 grapes? > > I guess the larger they are, the better they sell? When I was a little kid I coveted the head-sized strawberries on [Land of the Lost](http://landofthelost.wikia.com/wiki/Giant_Fruits_and_Vegetables). Heck yeah, I’d buy a plum-sized grape! ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/5 "2018-11-23T03:12:36Z")
Didn’t they used to be called “white grapes”? ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/6 "2018-11-25T02:29:25Z")
The old request, “peel ma a grape”, is impossible with these new grapes! ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/7 "2018-11-25T03:56:51Z")
> [@Sarabellum](#): > > And what will they be like in another 50 years? The size of plums, maybe? A decent snack might consist of 1 or 2 grapes? My wife bought some (expensive!) giant grapes in Japan that I thought were small plums at first. Not as expensive as these, though: > **[Someone paid $10,900 for 30 giant Japanese grapes](https://www.businessinsider.com/afp-giant-japanese-grapes-fetch-10900-at-auction-2016-7)** EDIT: The grapes my wife bought were probably kyoho grapes: [https://favy-jp.com/topics/1856](https://favy-jp.com/topics/1856) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/8 "2018-11-25T04:52:01Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > My wife bought some (expensive!) giant grapes in Japan that I thought were small plums at first. The article in my OP mentions the hormone Gibberellic acid, whose Wiki article says it was first identified in Japan in 1926 where they used it to make longer grains of rice. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/9 "2018-11-25T16:30:00Z")
It’s not a new phenomenon. When Ephriam Bull developed the concord grape, he entered it in an agricultural competition. The judges, not know what it was, classed it as a melon before Bull noticed and corrected them. They’d never seen grapes that large before. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/10 "2018-11-26T20:41:16Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Lately at the grocery store the green grapes have been remarkably big — with lengths about 1.5”, or about the same as the diameter of a ping pong ball; and they are plump, shaped similar to a watermelon (much smaller of course); and they are tight — with tight skin, and the inside “meat” is firm and perky. This thread is surprisingly arousing. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/11 "2018-11-26T22:29:36Z")
I just bought some black grapes that are equally large. But they’re not quite as sweet as the smaller ones. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/12 "2018-11-26T22:35:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > This thread is surprisingly arousing. Girdling the phloem while keeping the xylem unimpeded is illegal in 27 states. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/13 "2018-11-26T22:43:19Z")
I think it’s mostly a combination of variety, time of year, and other treatments. This time of year, it’s the normal US harvest time, so it’s likely that we’re seeing the best ones on offer. Those huge grapes are common, but so are the 3/4" long / 2/3" diameter ones (cheaper of course). Source: have two grape-eating fiends as children. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/14 "2018-11-26T23:00:09Z")
If you can, try Midnight Beauties. They’re a black grape only available in late summer and they are disgustingly decadent. We can’t keep them in the house. My son and I will eat a bunch within an hour of them walking through the door. Absolutely delicious. As for the OP, I’ve noticed the change as well, but couldn’t date it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/15 "2018-11-26T23:44:14Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Well, the larger they are, the higher the percentage of inside fruit pulp to outside skin you have. And since the inside is the most desirable part, that’s a better ratio. (For eating. Wine grapes might want more skin & moisture.) Wine grapes are far smaller than table grapes, and FAR sweeter. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/16 "2018-11-27T00:21:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess the larger they are, the better they sell? Maybe. I gotta say, it seems to me that the bigger ones are less flavorful. And they definitely seem to have thicker, more annoying skins. But grapes have always been something I got a few times a year, so it’s possible a change in my tastes that led to me enjoying them less just happened to coincide with me noticing them getting larger. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/17 "2018-11-27T06:32:31Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > If you can, try Midnight Beauties. They’re a black grape only available in late summer and they are disgustingly decadent. We can’t keep them in the house. My son and I will eat a bunch within an hour of them walking through the door. Absolutely delicious. > > As for the OP, I’ve noticed the change as well, but couldn’t date it. Do they have seeds? Every dark grape I ever bit into had a -surprise- hidden in the middle. And not, like, a fun surprise. These only concealed a hard, tooth-jarring surprise. But your description makes them sound so tasty … ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/18 "2018-11-28T19:36:03Z")
I’ve found that some of newer larger seedless grapes seem to be getting a pseudo-seed. They’re not fun to eat. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/19 "2018-11-28T19:53:44Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I’ve found that some of newer larger seedless grapes seem to be getting a pseudo-seed. They’re not fun to eat. I’ve noticed those pseudo-seeds too. But to me they’re not too big a deal, they just disappear compared to the big grape when I’m eating it. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949/20 "2018-11-28T19:59:05Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > … they are plump, shaped similar to a watermelon (much smaller of course); and they are tight — with tight skin, and the inside “meat” is firm and perky. Am I the only one who finds that vaguely obscene? 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-how-did-green-grapes-get-so-big-and-plump-and-tight/824949.md?page=2)