# When and why did Michael Jackson go nuts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 25, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382 "2012-07-25T21:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/61 "2012-07-28T17:33:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I also must admit I find it weird that people would rather believe he did something so unprecedented as try to change his race when the mundane explanation of his vitiligo is available, with so many signs of him deliberately covering up his skin while he was still dark. It seems he went further than most though to cover it up. Skin bleaching or make up it seems like a lot of work. As for the kids, bi-racial kids do vary but all three kids are very light skinned which is unusual. Rashida Jones sister is darker toned then she is. As a complete aside, I’ve met Jones twice and she is ten times better looking in person. TV doesn’t do her justice. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/62 "2012-07-29T10:53:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What behavior? People say this, and I used to believe it, but when he died I went and looked at everything, and I see no sign of any proof that he did anything illegal. I can see him socially shunned, maybe, but not put in jail. Especially since at least one of the people accusing him admitted to being coached, meaning it likely was because he was rich that at least one group went after him. > . [http://articles.cnn.com/2005-04-05/justice/jackson.trial\_1\_child-molestation-trial-neverland-ranch-pop-star?\_s=PM:LAW](http://articles.cnn.com/2005-04-05/justice/jackson.trial_1_child-molestation-trial-neverland-ranch-pop-star?_s=PM:LAW) > [@](#): > > Michael Jackson’s former personal maid testified Tuesday that she saw the pop star showering and laughing with a young boy at Neverland Ranch – with their underwear lying outside the shower door. > > However, the woman said that in the years she worked for Jackson, she never saw him touch a child sexually, although his behavior did make her uncomfortable and “concerned” for her own preteen son, who often came to work with her at Jackson’s suggestion. > > Her son testified Monday that he had been fondled by Jackson on three occasions but did not tell his mother until years afterward. > > * * * > > Taking the stand at Jackson’s child molestation trial, the former maid also said child movie star Macaulay Culkin stayed alone with Jackson in his bedroom when he visited for extended periods, though she did not say she saw any improper contact between the two. > > The woman said the boy she saw showering with Jackson was about 8 years old when he started staying at Neverland for weeks at a time over about a year, starting in 1989. She said he would sleep overnight in Jackson’s bedroom suite, and, when she went to change the linen, she would find only one of the two beds in the suite had been used. > **[Trial of Michael Jackson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Michael_Jackson)** > > People v. Jackson (full title: 1133603: The People of the State of California v. Michael Joe Jackson) was a 2005 criminal trial held in Santa Barbara County Superior Court in Santa Maria, California. The American pop singer Michael Jackson was charged with molesting Gavin Arvizo, who was 13 years old at the time of the alleged abuse, at his Neverland Ranch estate in Los Olivos, California. > Jackson was first accused of child sexual abuse in 1993; he denied the allegations and settled in a civi... > [@](#): > > The alleged first sexual act was Jackson masturbating Gavin on Jackson’s bed. Jackson allegedly initiated the molestation by urging the accuser to masturbate, telling him that boys who didn’t “might rape a girl.” However, in a police interview before the trial, Gavin was asked what he knew about masturbation and he said, “My grandma explained it to me. She told me that…if men don’t do it…they might go ahead and rape a woman”.[32][33] When asked about this coincidence, the accuser maintained that both his grandmother and Jackson had happened to tell him the same thing, but with different motives. The accuser testified that during that first sexual incident, he was wearing pajamas given to him by Jackson, and that the two of them “were under the covers.”[34] Jackson allegedly manipulated the accuser’s genitals for about five minutes, causing the accuser to ejaculate (count 2).[34] Afterwards, the accuser said, Jackson told him “it was okay” and they “just went to sleep.” The next night, Gavin testified, “the same thing happened again” (count 3), in Jackson’s bed, both of them wearing Jackson’s pajamas, but now they were on top of the covers, and maybe “watching T.V. or something.”[34] This time, Jackson also tried to guide the accuser’s hand to Jackson’s genitals, but the accuser pulled away (count 6). Gavin couldn’t remember for sure if he ejaculated the second time but he thought he did.[34] In an early interview with Sneddon, the accuser claimed he had been molested before the rebuttal video, but in court he testified that all the molestation was after the video was filmed.[35] The number of times he claimed to have been molested is also unclear, as he only testified in court to two incidents, but he had previously told Sergeant Steve Robel that he thought it was “between five and seven times.”[36] > > The accuser’s 14-year-old brother Star testified that he’d walked into Jackson’s bedroom and seen Jackson masturbating himself and the sleeping accuser. He testified that he’d meant to go to sleep in Jackson’s room, had found the door “kind of locked, so [he] pushed it, and it opened” and walked some ways into the room and stopped when he saw what Gavin and Michael were doing.[37] He testified they were on the bed “outside of the covers,” Jackson was on his back with his eyes closed and Gavin was “curled up” facing away from Jackson and was “kind of snoring.”[37] Star couldn’t remember what his brother had been wearing but said it might have been “pants or underwears,” and that Jackson was wearing “socks, underwears and an undershirt,” but later said Jackson’s “hand was in his pants.”[38][37] He variously used the words “pants” and “underwears” for both Gavin and Jackson to describe what they were wearing. One aspect that made his testimony weak was that Star, the only witness to the alleged molestation, claimed he twice walked in on Jackson molesting Gavin and was completely unnoticed, even while tripping the alarm system in the hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom. There was an alarm or bell noise that sounded whenever someone approached, and Star claimed that on both occasions the alarm went off and Jackson just did not hear it, or see or hear the boy come and go.[37] Star said he stood watching for about four seconds before he “just went back to the guest units.”[37] Star testified that two days later he had an almost identical experience. He allegedly walked into Jackson’s bedroom and saw that “the same thing was happening,” with Jackson “masturbating, stroking up and down” and his other hand moving around in Star’s sleeping “brother’s underwears.”[37] This time Star only stayed for three seconds before returning to the guest units. Star’s account of the sexual act on the second occasion neither matched the description he gave during an interview with the psychologist Stanley Katz nor his statement given in police interviews in 2003. Star Arvizo said in an interview with the psychologist Stanley Katz on May 29, 2003, that he witnessed Jackson placing his hand on Gavin’s crotch outside his clothes. On July 7, 2003, during his first interview with sheriff’s investigators, Star’s story changed. He claimed during the first incident Jackson placed his left hand under the front of his brother’s pajama pants. Star Arvizo changed his account a third time in a police interview on August 13, 2003, when he claimed Jackson had placed his hand inside the front of his brother’s boxer shorts.[39][40] Dr. Katz’ grand jury testimony about what Star had told him included a story about Jackson “rubbing his penis against Gavin’s buttocks” and another about smelling marijuana. In court, Star denied that he’d made the allegations and refused Mesereau’s offer to “refresh [his] recollection [by showing Star] that page of [Katz’] testimony.”[40] I’m not dedicated enough to dig out the other testimony and allegations including the famous jesus juice(wine) incident. I guess the thing is whether you believe all these people are spewing lies, or conspiring. Like I said even after the earlier incident where Jackson paid out 20 million, he once again created a questionable situation, I mean at the least why would Jackson open himself up to another false charge?! He went through all that before! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/63 "2012-07-29T11:13:24Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I’ll concede that Blanket might be Michael’s biological son. He looks like he could be half-black. But Prince and Paris are white. Not mixed-race. White. I saw all three of them on the news this morning. The contrast between Blanket and his two older siblings is quite striking. I worked with a guy in High School who was white. Absolutely as white as white can be. Completely, totally and thoroughly white. Not the slightest hint of dark skin-tone. Not mediterranean. Absolutely, redneck-bro white. And he was half black. The weird thing is, I actually think Paris _looks like_ Michael Jackson. The picture linked above with her side-by-side with LaToya Jackson really highlights the family resemblance. And Paris is certainly darker than the guy from high school I referenced above–as though that meant much of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/64 "2012-07-29T12:03:28Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I worked with a guy in High School who was white. Absolutely as white as white can be. Completely, totally and thoroughly white. Not the slightest hint of dark skin-tone. Not mediterranean. Absolutely, redneck-bro white. I work with a guy like that - ginger hair, green eyes, extremely pale skin. If it weren’t for the dreads and Jamaican accent, I’d assume he was of Scottish origin. He identifies as black, and is accepted as such by the other black people there. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/65 "2012-07-29T12:53:37Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I work with a guy like that - ginger hair, green eyes, extremely pale skin. If it weren’t for the dreads and Jamaican accent, I’d assume he was of Scottish origin. He identifies as black, and is accepted as such by the other black people there. albino? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/66 "2012-07-29T15:53:42Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > albino? No, albino’s have white hair and pink eyes. I’ve seen pictures of albino black men, and they look very different from my colleague. He looks like a normal white guy (apart from the dreadlocks). At least one of his parents, and some of his brothers, look black, and I’m told at least one other brother looks like him. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/67 "2012-07-29T16:01:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, albino’s have white hair and pink eyes. I’ve seen pictures of albino black men, and they look very different from my colleague. He looks like a normal white guy (apart from the dreadlocks). At least one of his parents, and some of his brothers, look black, and I’m told at least one other brother looks like him. There are black albinos who have orange or yellow hair and normal looking eyes, but perhaps they are suffering from something else. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/68 "2012-07-29T16:26:27Z")
As many have stated, skin tone varies greatly among Black (and biracial Black) people. I know families with members light bright almost white and very dark - siblings, even. So phenotype (or at least skin tone) would not qualify or disqualify the Jackson kids as being Black. There are plenty their shade and lighter. Even those who aren’t biracial. ---
**Author:** ![Christinenyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@Christinenyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christinenyc)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/69 "2016-03-04T18:49:29Z")
Nature and nurture.he suffered narcisstic personality disorder,clinical depression,drug addiction,anorexia,body dysmorphic disorder and had outragious obsessions/compulsions (non sexual) regarding children and being their savior. Hes an abuse survivor. his sexual orientation seems to be hetero but mostly he was into himself in some erotic malfunctioining way…He is probably not the bio dad of his kids as he would not want them to look like him with so many issues regarding his physical self. How do i know? Same way anyone could know, from michael jacksons own music /interview ,film and video legacy. He was generous,talented and a pioneer. I loved the michael jackson,from the 70’s till his death. See you on the other side Michael ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/70 "2016-03-04T21:48:24Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > Wasn’t he relatively normal prior to the mega-success of the Thriller album? > > Are there any generally accepted explanations for the bizarre behavior for the last third (or so) of his life? Just my guess but anyone who has thoughts and desires - especially sexual - that run contrary to society’s acceptable mores - especially if people go to prison for engaging in them - is likely to feel a deep seated fear of getting found out and feelings of intense shame and humiliation. Then, if and when the world rewards this person by showering them with millions of dollars and incredible acclaim, the subconscious conflict can easily shatter their minds and cause them to act nuts. Just a guess, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/71 "2016-03-04T23:04:02Z")
Is Michael Jackson a zombie? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/72 "2016-03-05T00:08:45Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Is Michael Jackson a zombie? Yes, he was. Didn’t you see the [music video](https://youtu.be/4V90AmXnguw?t=47s)? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/73 "2016-03-05T00:10:27Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The usual reason: he inadvertently insulted an old gypsy woman who then cursed him. > > It doesn’t seem all that mysterious to me. Give a performer more money than God, surround him with sycophants who are afraid to tell him no, add a relentless tabloid press, start him on the plastic surgery train (unstoppable, thanks in part to the “more money than God” and “afraid to tell him no”), each increasingly freakish transformation of his appearance further inflaming the “relentless tabloid press,” inspiring him to withdraw into further isolation, add some questionable shenanigans with little kids (cf: “money,” “afraid to say no,” “tabloid press,”), throw in some drug abuse at some point, and you end up with pretty much what you’d expect. Add to all of this that he started performing at a very young age and was instantly famous and you have someone who actually was never “normal” to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382/74 "2016-03-07T03:26:48Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > I saw him giving an interview during the VH1 special on Studio 64 – he had his original nose, no makeup, and was very engaging and lucid – not over-dramatic and intense as he tended to be in later interviews. That’s how I remember the Making of Thriller documentary (which I lost a long time ago). He was articulate and laid-back, joking with John Landis and clowning with his co-stars. (Plus, he tells Landis that he enjoyed the decidedly adult-oriented An American Werewolf in London and the occasionally raunchy Kentucky Fried Movie–a far cry from the childlike Peter Pan persona he later adopted.) It makes me sad to think of him as he was then. Maybe if he’d gotten therapy for his issues around then, he’d be some elder statesman of rock music today–looking like he did on Thriller, with more gray hair and age lines. Maybe helping give tribute to David Bowie, as one icon to another. It’s all such a lot of wasted potential from someone who could have had a lot to offer, musically and personally. (Oh, and another bit from Making of Thriller I liked–Landis tells how when Michael first called him to ask about directing the video, he’d figured out that London was eight hours ahead of L.A.–so he waited until two in the morning L.A. time to call John.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-michael-jackson-go-nuts/629382.md?page=3)