# When and why did Republicans start seeing Russia as allies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 13, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562 "2023-12-13T17:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/21 "2023-12-13T21:44:25Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > If Russian records of the last 30 years ever see the light of day, I’m sure we’ll all be shocked at how many GOPers were compromised. I doubt that there are very many who are compromised to the point of collusion, quid pro quo, or Kompromat. I think that the vast majority of Republicans who are dancing to Putin’s tune are doing so simply on the informal understanding that if they support him, he will support them without there being any communication between them at all except their actions and statements in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/22 "2023-12-13T21:48:10Z")
Two words: Hillary Clinton Clinton treated Putin like the petulant child he is during her tenure as Secretary of State, advising President Obama, “Don’t flatter Putin with high-level attention. Decline his invitation for a presidential summit.” Putin and the GOP had a mutual boogieman that not only led to Putin interfering in the 2016 election but also had Republicans fawning over a strong leader who wasn’t afraid to say what he really thought about that “horrible woman”. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/23 "2023-12-13T21:51:51Z")
Let’s also not forget Fox News. They’re not a campaign, they’re not a PAC, AFAIK there’s no law preventing them from accepting Russian investment by the shovelful. I wouldn’t be surprised to find some backroom dealing between Fox and Russia. And of course we all know the Republican mind is an open latrine for whatever Fox is excreting on a particular day. (or at least they were until that fateful night they called Arizona for Biden.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/24 "2023-12-13T21:55:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This is why the D’s should use reverse psychology. They should argue AGAINST universal healthcare, high taxes on the rich, LGBT, etc. Dear LGBT Ally, Please don’t suggest this, even in jest. The chances that they’d take the logically coherent position (“it’s a matter of individual freedom, and since it causes no harm shouldn’t be the concern of government”) are dwarfed by the chances that they’d use their bipartisan coalition to suppress and oppress. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/25 "2023-12-13T22:38:32Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > When the Soviet Union collapsed, and Putin came out on top, he very much fit the model of a right wing anti-communist kleptocrat, and the Republicans fell for him because they have always had a weakness for that type. Only Putin wasn’t remotely an anti-communist, so the model TFG and MAGA republicans chose to see in him wasn’t and isn’t who Putin is. Remember McCain’s words on his meeting with Putin? [“I looked in Mr. Putin’s eyes and I saw three letters – a K, a G, and a B.”](https://www.mccaininstitute.org/resources/in-the-news/john-mccain-was-right-vladimir-putin-is-a-thug/). Unlike TFG, who was easily manipulated by Putin and saw someone he couldn’t stop fawning over like a lovesick child. And unfortunately, in today’s Republican party, smearing a decorated war veteran who suffered years as a POW as a ‘loser’ for getting captured by TFG who avoided the war entirely due to ‘bone spurs’ is acceptable behavior. Putin spent his years prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union not just as an ardent communist, but as a high-ranking officer in the KGB. Just look at how free of any communist symbology the invasion of Ukraine has been. > **[‘It’s a reference to the USSR — to its return’ Why is the Kremlin...](https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/05/05/it-s-a-reference-to-the-ussr-to-its-return)** > > Russia’s war propaganda has begun co-opting Soviet symbols with increasing frequency. Monuments to the “grandmother with the Soviet flag,” for example, have popped up across the country. And both Kremlin officials and propaganda narratives continue... I mean, it’s not like Russian tanks were invading Ukraine while flying the hammer and sickle or anything. > **[Russian troops wave Soviet Union flag from tanks inside Ukraine](https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/russian-troops-soviet-union-flag-ukraine-b2023137.html)** > > Russian troops wave the former USSR flag from their military tanks as they travel from North Crimea into Ukraine on day two of the invasion. Parades of military vehicles - sporting the white ‘Z’ emblem - are seen travelling down the R-47 highway with... ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/26 "2023-12-13T22:44:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s the white supremacism. There is a certain irony here as the muslims Putin has built his career on killing are literally Caucasian. Like actually from the caucuses. Not the first or last darkly ironic twist in this shitshow ☹ ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/27 "2023-12-13T23:16:51Z")
I remember that debate between Romney and Obama where the topic of Russia came up. I recall that Romney was the one warning against Russia and Obama was downplaying the threat. How different things seem now. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/28 "2023-12-13T23:35:48Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I recall that Romney was the one warning against Russia and Obama was downplaying the threat. At the time, it was never clarified whether Romney appreciated Russia as the threat they became in election interference in 2016, or if he was simply referring to a standard old cold war era view. I’ve never, ever heard this issue discussed or determined. My assumption at the time, in the absence of any reference by Romney to the newer threat Russia posed as a disinformation machine, was that he was harking back to the cold war threat. If he meant something different, he should have spoken up with much more specificity and force. He has certainly dined out on the perception that he was prescient about the newer concern about Russia for a long time, though. I’d like to see _any_ evidence that Romney was referring to the newer threat of Russia rather than the old threat of Russia. In the absence of such evidence, I’ll stick with the, “even a broken clock is right twice a day,” maxim. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/29 "2023-12-13T23:40:56Z")
It’s because Republicans and Russia are in the same side of the culture war. Russia is fighting for White Christiandom against the hedonistic West. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/30 "2023-12-13T23:41:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This is why the D’s should use reverse psychology. They should argue AGAINST universal healthcare, high taxes on the rich, LGBT, etc. Lol good try Brer Rabbit. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/31 "2023-12-13T23:48:36Z")
Yes, I agree it wasn’t clear. I’m just noting how things are so different now. I suppose Russia is different now too, or at least I hope so. Maybe that’s why the republicans turned to Russia? Anything to show Obama up. I’m just kidding. Mostly. As far as you know. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/32 "2023-12-14T00:13:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > At the time, it was never clarified whether Romney appreciated Russia as the threat they became in election interference in 2016, or if he was simply referring to a standard old cold war era view. What Romney specifically said was: > “Russia is not a friendly character on the world stage,” Romney said at one point. “And for this President to be looking for greater flexibility, where he doesn’t have to answer to the American people in his relations with Russia, is very, very troubling, very alarming.” > ”Well, I’m saying in terms of a geopolitical opponent, the nation that lines up with the world’s worst actors. Of course, the greatest threat that the world faces is a nuclear Iran. A nuclear North Korea is already troubling enough. > > “But when these – these terrible actors pursue their course in the world and we go to the United Nations looking for ways to stop them, when – when Assad, for instance, is murdering his own people, we go – we go to the United Nations, and who is it that always stands up for the world’s worst actors?” > > “It is always Russia, typically with China alongside.” [https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/politics/mitt-romney-russia-ukraine/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/politics/mitt-romney-russia-ukraine/index.html) The context was that it was 2012 and Obama was getting chummy with Russia. Romney was insisting that even though the USSR was gone, Russia was still a danger. You’re making an unimportant distinction. The Cold War didn’t really end, not for Russia. They didn’t stop seeing the US and the west in general as an enemy. They may be using different tactics but it’s still the same end goal. Romney was attacked, rather successfully I might add, because the prevailing wisdom was that Russia could be our allies and we had to stop treating them like an enemy or even a rival. That was wrong. As it turns out, the only real allies that Russia has in the US are the ones trying to destroy it from within. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/33 "2023-12-14T00:16:11Z")
Russia has been funneling money to the GOP for years, not just the NRA operation. They also have had American columnists on their payroll spouting their propaganda. > **[How Republicans Spent Decades Cozying Up to Putin’s Kremlin](https://newrepublic.com/article/165782/republicans-putin-history-relationship-manafort)** > > The man who once worked to connect Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff to Russia is now chief of staff to Marjorie Taylor Greene. Any questions? [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/18/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-putin-215387/](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/18/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-putin-215387/) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/34 "2023-12-14T00:32:56Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You’re making an unimportant distinction. The Cold War didn’t really end, not for Russia. I don’t dispute the part about the cold war not really ending for Russia. But I do think there is a distinction to be made, particularly with respect to tactics used. If Romney had an understanding about the new tactics using propaganda and misinformation, then he had a duty to share that information with specificity. He didn’t, and my assumption from that is that he wasn’t any more aware of the new tactics than anyone else. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Russia has been funneling money to the GOP for years, not just the NRA operation. There has never been sufficient recognition of this fact in this country, particularly by Democrats. We’re sure paying the price for it now. I already see the effects misinformation and propaganda are having on the upcoming election. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/35 "2023-12-14T00:37:31Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > If Romney had an understanding about the new tactics using propaganda and misinformation, then he had a duty to share that information with specificity. He didn’t, and my assumption from that is that he wasn’t any more aware of the new tactics than anyone else. I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m not giving him credit for predicting their new tactics because he didn’t. I’m not sure that he’s even trying to take credit for it either. He’s saying he knew they were rotten and never stopped being rotten. Now, I’m not saying he was some kind of visionary either. It doesn’t take a genius to say that the leopard doesn’t change its spots and that you shouldn’t go petting it. If he correctly predicted that the leopard was instead going to hack your bank account, well then I’d call him some sort of wizard. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/36 "2023-12-14T00:48:39Z")
Ah, ok. We do agree. I guess I just struggle with the widespread meme that Romney was somehow a visionary for recognizing that Russia never stopped posing a threat. In that, I have always agreed with him. But I don’t think it took any kind of genius to see it – by either him or any of us who thought to ourselves, “Well, duh.” ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/37 "2023-12-14T14:44:30Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > And unfortunately, in today’s Republican party, smearing a decorated war veteran who suffered years as a POW as a ‘loser’ for getting captured by TFG who avoided the war entirely due to ‘bone spurs’ is acceptable behavior. That’s nothing new. I still remember that bastard Saxby Chambliss smearing war hero Max Cleland in his campaign for Senate. (And it worked.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/38 "2023-12-14T14:48:08Z")
The enabling of Russia’s aggression by Republicans is about 90% semi-mindless opposition to Biden and the Democrats, close to 10% admiration of Putin’s autocratic style, and \<1% because they think he’s hot in those bare-chested horseback riding photos. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/39 "2023-12-14T15:00:51Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I still remember that bastard Saxby Chambliss smearing war hero Max Cleland in his campaign for Senate. Just read up on that. I think Trump was worse. That guy smeared someone who was a veteran, but didn’t make it about his service. Trump smeared McCain **because he was a veteran**. “I like heroes who didn’t get captured” is a slur you can only use because McCain actually put his ass on the line, and was thus captured. Orders of magnitude worse. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562/40 "2023-12-14T15:03:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > and \<1% because they think he’s hot in those bare-chested horseback riding photos. You’re way underestimating there. The prevalence of homosexuality even among the general populace is somewhere in the 5-10% range, and among vocal homophobes, it’s significantly higher. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562.md?page=3)