# When applying for a job, is the employer allowed to ask this **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 24, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663 "2013-11-24T05:14:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/21 "2013-11-25T15:24:42Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Don’t people fill out those kinds of questionnaires with whatever they think the employer wants to hear anyway? That’s what I totally did when I was placed with a company that does “Emotional Intelligence” seminars and they required that I complete their online “assessment.” I simply answered with what I thought they wanted to see. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/22 "2013-11-25T19:54:08Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Probably not. For one thing, you can’t discriminate on the basis of religion, I’ve met Lutherans who go to church every week and lack “a positive general belief system.” I’m an atheist with a materialist world-view. If I suspected an employer was refusing to hire me because of any part of that, I’d almost certainly be consulting with an attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/23 "2013-11-25T20:11:29Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Well, if you give a New Ager and an evangelical the test, you’re just as likely to get the same response from both of them. However, if you give the test to 100 people, you’re more likely to find an evangelical than a New Ager, because the former vastly outnumbers the latter in terms of demographics. Depends strongly on where you live. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/24 "2013-11-25T20:27:40Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I’m an atheist with a materialist world-view. If I suspected an employer was refusing to hire me because of any part of that, I’d almost certainly be consulting with an attorney. How would you know that was why they didn’t hire you? That is the problem here, to prove discrimination, you need to prove systemic bias - or have proof that it was your lack of faith that meant you didn’t get hired - if you get a “we would have loved to hire you, you were the best qualified, but we don’t hire atheists” letter, you’d be good, but most companies don’t send those out. Finding an attorney to even take a case like this can be difficult and expensive, because they are hard to win. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/25 "2013-11-25T20:57:03Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > How would you know that was why they didn’t hire you? That is the problem here, to prove discrimination, you need to prove systemic bias - or have proof that it was your lack of faith that meant you didn’t get hired - if you get a “we would have loved to hire you, you were the best qualified, but we don’t hire atheists” letter, you’d be good, but most companies don’t send those out. Finding an attorney to even take a case like this can be difficult and expensive, because they are hard to win. This kind of misses the point. “Is it illegal to do x” and “am I likely to get caught if I do x” are very different questions. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/26 "2013-11-25T21:12:03Z")
Speaking as a Catholic… I find that an inappropriate question. That said, when my wife and I were interviewing possible caregivers for our son, my wife did ask applicants if they were religious (I wouldn’t have asked, and was surprised that she did). In the end, we hired someone who’d forthrightly said he was NOT religious at all, so I guess it didn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/27 "2013-11-25T21:14:10Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > This kind of misses the point. “Is it illegal to do x” and “am I likely to get caught if I do x” are very different questions. It is not, as was said above, illegal to ask any of those questions - many companies avoid questions that might be used to provide evidence of discrimination, but merely asking them is not illegal. And companies who ask those sorts of questions in a questionnaire often farm out the analysis to get a general personality profile on the applicant, which isn’t going to mention religion at all. “The applicant appears to be pragmatic” “The applicant is likely an extrovert who will be comfortable working with others.” “The applicant may be likely to challenge assumptions.” Now, how do you prove that the reason you weren’t hired was because you were an atheist, and not because when the hiring manager looked at you, you reminded her of her sister’s ex husband? - which is a perfectly legal reason to not hire you. If they, indeed, did not hire you because you were an atheist, they are behaving in an illegal fashion - but its going to be up to you to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/28 "2013-11-25T21:57:32Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > It is not, as was said above, illegal to ask any of those questions - many companies avoid questions that might be used to provide evidence of discrimination, but merely asking them is not illegal. And companies who ask those sorts of questions in a questionnaire often farm out the analysis to get a general personality profile on the applicant, which isn’t going to mention religion at all. “The applicant appears to be pragmatic” “The applicant is likely an extrovert who will be comfortable working with others.” “The applicant may be likely to challenge assumptions.” Now, how do you prove that the reason you weren’t hired was because you were an atheist, and not because when the hiring manager looked at you, you reminded her of her sister’s ex husband? - which is a perfectly legal reason to not hire you. If they, indeed, did not hire you because you were an atheist, they are behaving in an illegal fashion - but its going to be up to you to prove it. Again, I’m not sure this is really on point. I know as an interviewer, you can ask whatever you want, and that as an unhired candidate, proving why you didn’t get hired is hard, so I don’t know why you’re bringing that up. (Though, you’re wrong if you don’t think these cases are frequently settled at some cost to the company. They really do not want these cases in front of juries.) Anyway, to review, my question was in response to a chain of responses that started here: > [@WordMan](#): > > When she spoke, she discussed Spirituality - her point was that it had nothing to do with specific beliefs, organized religion, etc. - it had to do with one’s ability to calm themselves and put things in perspective when confronted with stress. So their Vulnerability Index asks about spirituality but not with any intent to dial in on specific faiths or approaches to it. And my question was about whether or not it would be legal to refuse to hire someone because of their answers to questions about ‘Spirituality.’ To me, that sounded way too close to religious beliefs, even if there were some evidence that ‘Spiritual’ people are better able to cope with stress. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/29 "2013-11-25T22:08:33Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > And my question was about whether or not it would be legal to refuse to hire someone because of their answers to questions about ‘Spirituality.’ To me, that sounded way too close to religious beliefs, even if there were some evidence that ‘Spiritual’ people are better able to cope with stress. The law is based on relatively narrow sets of protected criteria. Religions are a protected class, but something more vague like spirituality is not protected. Of course, what you’d wind up with in real life is a court case where the plaintiff argues that discriminating on spirituality is the same as discriminating based on religion, and the defendant argues that it isn’t discrimination (and probably also insists that they had another reason for rejecting the applicant anyway). Some poor judge or jury will then be left looking at all the hints and innuendos in the rest of the employer’s behavior to see whether there is a consistent pattern one way or the other ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/30 "2013-11-25T23:13:51Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > The law is based on relatively narrow sets of protected criteria. Religions are a protected class, but something more vague like spirituality is not protected. > > Of course, what you’d wind up with in real life is a court case where the plaintiff argues that discriminating on spirituality is the same as discriminating based on religion, and the defendant argues that it isn’t discrimination (and probably also insists that they had another reason for rejecting the applicant anyway). Some poor judge or jury will then be left looking at all the hints and innuendos in the rest of the employer’s behavior to see whether there is a consistent pattern one way or the other Is there any actual established case law on this? I certainly think of my lack of spirituality as being part of my (lack of) religion, but I can see that there’s enough room there to argue otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663/31 "2013-11-26T01:11:06Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Is there any actual established case law on this? I certainly think of my lack of spirituality as being part of my (lack of) religion, but I can see that there’s enough room there to argue otherwise. Unfortunately, I can’t offer anything as detailed as case law. I’m just tracking it as a small employer looking to avoid accusations. (I had one employee accuse me of firing him for being a Muslim. We pointed out that we were firing him for being late and for missing work without calling us. The fact that we had this in our employee handbook probably saved us a great deal of hassle.) I can also say that my experience up here in the Pacific NW shows me that there are many non-religious people who still consider themselves quite spiritual. There’s a lot of very vague talk about the universe or energy sources that doesn’t quite fit or contradict any religion specifically. You certainly won’t find them in church, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-applying-for-a-job-is-the-employer-allowed-to-ask-this/674663.md?page=1)