# When can we stop obsessing over WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613 "2011-01-14T16:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Amazing_Hanna)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/1 "2011-01-14T16:55:43Z")
(Posted after accidentally switching to the Hitler, sorry, History Channel.) World War II ended almost three score and ten years ago. The babies born to parents who returned from the war are now old men and women. The countries involved have all changed radically - mostly, for the better. The meek, liberal Germans of today are as unlikely as their Japanese counterparts to start marching anywhere soon. Large-scale antisemitism in the West is dead and buried. Most of those who fought are no longer with us. Yet WWII occupies what seems to me a remarkably large share of our worldview and popular culture, and our view of the countries involved. As well as as, perhaps, many people’s attitude to foreign policy - not only in the US, but in Europe, Japan and Russia as well. Is it time to turn a new leaf and recognize we now live in an era which no longer really resembles the world of the last world war? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/2 "2011-01-14T17:01:34Z")
Right after we stop obsessing about the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/3 "2011-01-14T17:02:38Z")
I think that we largely _have_ recognized that the modern world is not the world of the 1940s. That being said - WW2 was a truly transformative geopolitical event. It brought us the two superpowers of the 20th century, set the stage for the Cold War, and ushered in the development of a lot of modern international law. The fall of the old European colonial empires was greatly hastened by their impoverished postwar state. The European Community (and later, the EU) were created explicitly to rebuild Europe and prevent another European war, and one of the reasons that reunified Germany is an EU member is that the other European states were leery of a united Germany that _wouldn’t_ be constrained by EU institutions. A good understanding of the events preceeding, during, and following WW2 isn’t sufficient for an understanding of the modern world, by any means - but there’s a fine argument to be made that it’s necessary for such an understanding. ---
**Author:** ![sunstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunstone/32/3372_2.png) [@sunstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunstone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/4 "2011-01-14T17:09:03Z")
While I agree with the OP to a large extent, there are some lessons learned that we should remember…not that we do remember, but we should! The greatest lesson is that countries can and will change. Germany was a totally different country in the decade leading up to the Nazi shift. In fact it was pretty democratic and liberal by the standard of the day. Of course that changed in the 30’s and 40’s. There were a number of causes, but the economic crash and anger over what was seen as an unfair settlement of WW I is often cited as primary causes, but the acceptance of a leader (Hitler and the Nazi system) who said he had answers to the problems certainly at the top of the list of causes. Remember that countries like the USA could drift or even rush toward either end of the political spectrum. People can become wildly different in their politics and how society is run. The lesson is that we must be vigilant. Perhaps there is a reason for all of those old folks to see WW II in a different light. I think it wise to see what can be learned from history rather than dismiss it. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/5 "2011-01-14T17:10:23Z")
It’s the last war where we (Horoshima and Nagasaki excluded) were the “good guys” and the “bad guys” were smashed the pieces. All the subsequent wars had no victorious endings (and Afghanistan is no doubt going to be a bust). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/6 "2011-01-14T17:15:55Z")
I must say, I find the idea that we are obsessing over WWII a novel one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/7 "2011-01-14T17:17:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I must say, I find the idea that we are obsessing over WWII a novel one. And if we _are_ obsessing, I don’t think the OP has any understanding of why we are doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/8 "2011-01-14T17:18:48Z")
In addition to what **Mr. Excellent** said, I think it’s still relevant because it is not only the most significant war in history, but it is also one where it’s pretty black and white who the good guys and bad guys are, which isn’t really so clear in other wars. Nazism and Hitler are synonymous with evil in popular culture. I don’t think popular culture’s obsession is really all that different from when you talk to someone who is middle-aged or older and out of shape and they still recall fondly some athletic story from their youth. For the US, it doesn’t seem a whole lot different in that respect than going into a football game against your highschool’s arch rivals and scoring 4 touchdowns to be the clear hero. Honestly, I don’t see it being lived down for quite a while, probably not until there’s another major war on a similar or greater scale, which just doesn’t seem likely in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/9 "2011-01-14T17:31:56Z")
My parents are Holocaust survivors, still living. That event shaped their lives and my life in thousands of ways, big and small. I face the effects of WWII on my life constantly. It wasn’t that long ago, for many of us. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/10 "2011-01-14T17:34:21Z")
The last combatants are dying off, which means the last bits of new evidence of the war (photos, movies, memorabilia, classified documents) that some veteran had been keeping in his attic or had been filed away in some government office will come out. Plus, the upheaval of the post-war period didn’t end until relatively recently, with the reunification of Germany, the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the emergence of a new, nominally capitalist Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/11 "2011-01-14T17:42:08Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It’s the last war where we (Horoshima and Nagasaki excluded) were the “good guys” and the “bad guys” were smashed the pieces. > > All the subsequent wars had no victorious endings (and Afghanistan is no doubt going to be a bust). I’d second this. The guys who most like to talk about the war are those who see it as a great heroic victory for their people: the americans and the british. Everyone else either wishes we’d change the record already, or don’t care. Although: I’ve never really spoken to Russians or Finns about the war: I wonder if they’re proud or conflicted? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/12 "2011-01-14T17:42:59Z")
WWII was one of the biggest transformative events in human history. The world of 1939 was wildly different from the world of 1945. And many of the participants are still alive. There are many, many lessons from WWII which are still valid today. I would argue that we don’t pay _enough_ attention to it, especially in schools. How many young people today know the reasons why the war started? How many really understand what the motivations of Japan and Germany were? How many know what happened at the Potsdam conference or the Yalta conference, or why the UN is constructed the way it is today? How many understand how the League of Nations failed, and why the UN was created? WWII was the last, and most violent world war in history. Understanding how it happened is critical to future world peace. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/13 "2011-01-14T18:11:06Z")
The only thing I have to add to **Mr. Excellent** ’s lucid summary is that in addition to the geopolitical impacts–in essence, transferring the mantle of the world’s peacemaker from the British Crown to the United States, and setting up the primary world conflict of the next five decades–World War II had an enormous and lasting effect on American culture and industry. It both solidified the status of the United States as the premier industrial power (which it maintained until the late 'Sixties or early 'Seventies) but also allowed women to experience _en masse_ the advantages and freedom of permanent employment outside the home, setting the stage for the second wave of feminism. Although the women who went to work largely returned to homemaker status after the war, the lack of satisfaction with that limited role and the opportunities opened by education and employment beyond being a secretary or clerical worker were conferred upon their daughters who were attending the rapidly expanding and more liberal land grant universities in the late 'Fifties and 'Sixties. World War II had a massive and lasting impact upon American culture in multiple ways (including the glorification of military adventurism and the sense that America was the premier defender of freedom and democracy) but the social suffrage of women as a voice in public discourse and economic activity was a permanent and radical one that continues through today. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/14 "2011-01-14T18:14:37Z")
Forget the past, and you’ll repeat it. My dad fought in that war. He died in October. I’m 50- is that considered old now? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/15 "2011-01-14T18:23:03Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > World War II ended almost three score and ten years ago. 70 is no longer particularly old. People are now **typically** surviving until their mid 80s. Someone who’s 80 - born in 1930 or 1931 - was more than old enough to be aware of and remember the horrors. Hell, the last British serviceman who served in WW **1** only died the other year. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/16 "2011-01-14T18:25:11Z")
[QUOTE=sunstone] Remember that countries like the USA could drift or even rush toward either end of the political spectrum. People can become wildly different in their politics and how society is run. The lesson is that we must be vigilant. Perhaps there is a reason for all of those old folks to see WW II in a different light. I think it wise to see what can be learned from history rather than dismiss it. [/QUOTE] See, to me, this shows that you failed to learn the actual lessons and history of WWII. Countries don’t just drift into something like Nazism…it takes a specific and focused series of events and hammer blows, as well as the historical underpinnings to get from the Weimar Republic to Nazi Germany…and the US has almost none of them. I certainly agree that it’s better to learn from history than dismiss it…I just wish people would actually LEARN from it, instead of trying to twist it to fit their own political world view. -XT ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/17 "2011-01-14T18:31:01Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Plus, the upheaval of the post-war period didn’t end until relatively recently… I understand what you’re saying, but how do we decide when the ramifications of something in the past have “ended”? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > How many young people today know the reasons why the war started?..Understanding how it happened is critical to future world peace. I would put it even more strongly. You cannot understand the way things are now–the “War on Terrorism”; the economy (baby-boomers and their legacy; the industrial middle class that we’ve taken for granted until now that’s it’s disappearing); the U.S. military-industrial complex-- without knowing about what happened in WWII and the things that followed from it. History isn’t a series of discrete, compartmentalized “eras” that just happen and suddenly end. That kind of thinking comes from the design of textbooks, the necessity of dividing history courses into manageable chunks, and especially from how we refer to past times in terms of decades. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/18 "2011-01-14T18:31:40Z")
I always think WW2 gets way too much spotlight, when we all know that war determined our lives in more ways than one: > **[Anglo-Zanzibar War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War)** > > 500 killed or wounded (including civilians) > The Anglo-Zanzibar War was a military conflict fought between the United Kingdom and the Zanzibar Sultanate on 27 August 1896. The conflict lasted between 38 and 45 minutes, marking it as the shortest recorded war in history. The immediate cause of the war was the death of the pro-British Sultan Hamad bin Thuwaini on 25 August 1896 and the subsequent succession of Sultan Khalid bin Barghash. The British authorities preferred Hamoud bin Mohammed, wh... ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/19 "2011-01-14T18:34:02Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > My parents are Holocaust survivors, still living. > > That event shaped their lives and my life in thousands of ways, big and small. I face the effects of WWII on my life constantly. > > It wasn’t that long ago, for many of us. Exactly what I was going to say. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/20 "2011-01-14T18:57:45Z")
I don’t think we’ll quit obsessing over WWII for a long LONG time. It was so large, so well known, and had such a variety of events that stuff from it is very commonly referenced. Most people hear terms relating to WWII on an almost daily basis. Even when the last WWII soldier is dead, the references are so ingrained in our culture they’ll stay around. Kamikaze, blitzkrieg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Warsaw uprising, death march, concentration camp, french resistance fighters, holocaust, bombing runs, Dresden, V-Day, GI’s, Pearl Harbor, Manhattan Project, slang like SNAFU or Kilroy was here, appeasement, and of course references to people like Goebbels, Stalin, Roosevelt, Churchill, and the ever popular insult of calling someone Hitler. As long as these, and other, terms are commonly used, the obsession of WWII will continue. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613.md?page=2)