# When can we stop obsessing over WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613 "2011-01-14T16:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/21 "2011-01-14T19:25:29Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > The countries involved have all changed radically - mostly, for the better. The meek, liberal Germans of today are as unlikely as their Japanese counterparts to start marching anywhere soon. > **[German village becomes base for neo-Nazis - UPI.com](https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/01/03/German-village-becomes-base-for-neo-Nazis/UPI-42021294092306/)** > > Neo-Nazis have taken over a whole village in northeastern Germany, and authorities seem to have given in, local leaders say. The reason Japan is not a military power is precisely because the U.S. forbids it from being so, and the reason that the U.S. is willing and able to do that (enforced by our large military presence on Japanese territory to this day) is precisely because of how World War II was fought and won. A similar situation is true about the changes in German military culture which, judging from the way that racial minorities are treated in Germany and the way that ordinary Germans bristle at the suggestion that anyone beyond Hitler himself bore any responsibility for what happened, remain necessary. A vast number of U.S. military personnel’s first overseas deployment is to a base in Germany. You are mistakenly applying a sense of inevitability to the current world situation, rather than seeing the role that WWII played in creating it. > [@](#): > > Large-scale antisemitism in the West is dead and buried. And unicorn meat sandwiches are free on Sundays. And it’s not just Jews who are still looked down upon in most cultures, Western included–the way Gypsies, Turks, and Arabs are treated in Europe is disgraceful as well. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/22 "2011-01-14T19:35:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > WWII was one of the biggest transformative events in human history. The world of 1939 was wildly different from the world of 1945. And many of the participants are still alive. > > There are many, many lessons from WWII which are still valid today. I’ll go further. I maintain that WW2 is essentially the beginning of history as most people understand it today - the start of the modern world. This is not necessarily a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Raintitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e99b99/32.png) [@Raintitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raintitan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/23 "2011-01-14T20:28:45Z")
Adding to great comments that have already been stated: In general, modern war from a US-centric perspective has shifted to a model of hunting and killing specific individuals and less about hunting and killing entire armies and countries. Technology and intelligence now identifies key people of tactical or strategic value and they get captured, or eliminated- albeit with wide margins of error. The scope of WW2 was so huge in comparison to how modern wars are executed and will be, although I’m sure there will be an exception. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/24 "2011-01-14T20:59:23Z")
There are many excellent responses (Mr. Excellent and Stranger’s among others), but I’ll add that another way WWII was transformative (although I have no cite, as it’s something I heard more than 20 years ago, but I certainly believe it): It was the most thoroughly documented war in history. It will be studied, debated, and argued over probably for generations. No doubt military tactics will be discussed, dissected, and perhaps emulated in military schools for decades to come. And I realize that’s getting away from the OP, but I’m saying the importance of WWII cannot be understated for any number of reasons. And why not? The recent movie _300_ showed that even after 2,000 years, specific wars and battles are still talked about, even if “obsessed” is too strong a word for that particular confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/25 "2011-01-14T21:41:45Z")
Well, for the History Channel, WWII provides a never ending supply of relatively uncontrovertial source material. Really, the entire first half of the 20th Century was an incredibly transformative time in world history. I really don’t think you can compare anything in recent history to the scale of WWII. **Prelude to Fascination** , WWII probably was the most thouroughly documented war in history at that time. Vietnam and our current wars with their embeded reporters and high speed internet communication and 24 hour news networks would certainly be more documented. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/26 "2011-01-14T21:55:25Z")
Plus, if the History Channel is showing stuff about WWII, at least this is history related…unlike their endless woo shows about Nostradamus, the Mayan 2012 world ending, supposed ancient aliens and, well, all the other tripe they constantly show. And I LIKE the History Channel. -XT ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/27 "2011-01-14T21:56:50Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > The babies born to parents who returned from the war are now old men and women. The Hell I am! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/28 "2011-01-14T22:01:12Z")
Probably not till WWIII happens. And, while I may be wrong, I highly suspect the obsessing over WW2 is not quite as bad as living through WWIII. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/29 "2011-01-14T22:10:27Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > The last combatants are dying off, which means the last bits of new evidence of the war (photos, movies, memorabilia, classified documents) that some veteran had been keeping in his attic or had been filed away in some government office will come out. > > Plus, the upheaval of the post-war period didn’t end until relatively recently, with the reunification of Germany, the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the emergence of a new, nominally capitalist Russia. This. In my lifetime I’ve seen Europe and Japan rebuilt and the post cold-war walls literally fall down. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/30 "2011-01-14T22:15:48Z")
Even if the History Channel reverted back to the mid-1990’s Hitler Channel, you still wouldn’t know what WWII-obession was as I did as a kid in the 1960’s. Virtually all war movies were WWII movies: no contemporary Vietnam or Korean War movies; very few Civil War movies. This was the dacade when the majority of WWI vets were dying off, but there was no “Saving Private Ryan/Band of Brothers” resurgence of interest as when the WWII vet deaths peaked. The Spanish army was still using WWII surplus planes and tanks, and movie producers were welcome to come set up production there. Same thing with TV. Combat, Rat Partol, Hogan’s Heros, etc. You’d walk into the drug store and see paperbacs with swastikas on the covers scattered all along the display rack. Playing “army” was just something we kids did, much more than baseball and football, because all the kids, boys and girls, big and little, could join in. All the props were WWII, like the toy Garand M1’s with the gold-painted wooden bullet. A lot of us had actual war surplus stuff, like cunt caps (we didn’t know they were called that), or my canvas leggings (both for the left leg). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/31 "2011-01-14T22:22:11Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > The babies born to parents who returned from the war are now old men and women. You didn’t respond to these posts… > [@california\_jobcase](#): > > Forget the past, and you’ll repeat it. My dad fought in that war. He died in October. I’m 50- is that considered old now? > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The Hell I am! …so let me emphasize this point. I’m 52 years old (hardly an “old man”), and I have met and talked with World War I veterans. The last person receiving government benefits from the Civil War (the spouse of a soldier) died in my lifetime. Two of my uncles died in World War II. This is not ancient history. Look at the math. Soldiers went off to fight in these wars when they were 18 - or sometimes younger. Someone who enlisted in 1943 at age 18 could well have fathered children in 1965. Those children would only be 45 now. Heck, I know people who are still obsessing over the [Battle of Bannockburn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn), and that was almost 700 years ago 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Amazing_Hanna)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/32 "2011-01-14T22:30:39Z")
I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have written “old”, of course. My bad. But still, it was a while since the war, hasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/33 "2011-01-14T22:36:23Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have written “old”, of course. My bad. > > But still, it was a while since the war, hasn’t it? Only in the most limited definition of “a while”. It is in the immediate memory of many living people. The effects of the war still touch the lives in direct and tangible ways of many living people. It is hardly “obsessing” when people are still dealing with the after-effects and consequences of this war. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/34 "2011-01-14T22:43:20Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:31, topic:567613”] You didn’t respond to these posts… …so let me emphasize this point. I’m 52 years old (hardly an “old man”), and I have met and talked with World War I veterans. The last person receiving government benefits from the Civil War (the spouse of a soldier) died in my lifetime. Two of my uncles died in World War II. This is not ancient history. Look at the math. Soldiers went off to fight in these wars when they were 18 - or sometimes younger. Someone who enlisted in 1943 at age 18 could well have fathered children in 1965. Those children would only be 45 now. Heck, I know people who are still obsessing over the [Battle of Bannockburn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn), and that was almost 700 years ago 😉 [/QUOTE] And another point: Some people who were caught up in the war, and in some cases placed in concentration camps, were children. My mother, for example, who is still very much alive. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/35 "2011-01-14T22:57:45Z")
I suggest this (for US perspectives): What if US history is broken up into 3 sections? 1. Lexington/Concord to Fort Sumter (one week shy of 86 years) 2. Appomattox to Pearl Harbor (76 years) 3. Hiroshima to …9/11/2001? Or maybe something yet to come in ten years or so? All three of these sections are as long as one long but not remarkably long lifetime. Society was changed more significantly between them than any other dividing lines I could name. Which is why I’m not so sure the third section was closed on 9/11. As significant as Vietnam or 9/11 was, and despite the fact that, back in the 1980’s, the number of deaths worldwide in post-WWII conflicts had already exceeded the huge number killed 1939-1945, I don’t think our society has been passed into a entirely new section yet. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/36 "2011-01-14T23:14:13Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > And another point: Some people who were caught up in the war, and in some cases placed in concentration camps, were children. My mother, for example, who is still very much alive. One of the incidents that changed my whole outlook on life: I got a .22 rifle when I was a teenager. My best friend asked if he could keep one at my house if he got it, because his parents wouldn’t let him have a gun. When I was having dinner at his house a while later, I asked his mother why she wouldn’t let him get a gun. His parents both rolled up their sleeves and showed me tattoos. “Do you know what these are?” his mom asked. “They are ID tattoos from a German concentration camp. We’ve seen enough guns to last us a lifetime.” My friend was appalled that I asked the question, but the discussion was highly enlightening for me. World War II and its atrocities stopped being abstract for me right then. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/37 "2011-01-14T23:17:02Z")
Sadly, it’s too bad more European Jews didn’t have guns and were, by and large, non-violent kinds of people. It might not have made that much difference, but they may have taken some of those Nazi bastards down with them at least. ☹ -XT ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/38 "2011-01-14T23:34:23Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Sadly, it’s too bad more European Jews didn’t have guns and were, by and large, non-violent kinds of people. It might not have made that much difference, but they may have taken some of those Nazi bastards down with them at least. ☹ > > -XT I read of one incident, and I probably repeat myself, where one of the Jews bring lined up to be show and dumped in a trench attacked a German with his pocketknife. Then the Nazis began killing them with axes. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/39 "2011-01-14T23:38:10Z")
Yeah, while most likely apocryphal, there was probably nothing even armed Jews could really do in the end. But, like I said, they could possibly have sent some of the bastards to hell first. Thinking of all those people, especially the children, being slaughtered like sheep just makes me sick with fury. Which is another good reason to NEVER forget about WWII…IMHO. -XT ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613/40 "2011-01-14T23:44:41Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Thinking of all those people, especially the children, being slaughtered like sheep just makes me sick with fury. Of course it does. Some denominations of us don’t believe in Hell, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-can-we-stop-obsessing-over-wwii/567613.md?page=3)