# When college students write about abortion... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 10, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356 "2009-10-10T23:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/81 "2009-10-14T03:01:29Z")
> [@velvetjones](#): > > I wonder if one of the reasons there seems to be a decline in writing skills is that young people are reading for pleasure less. In my casual observation it seems like people who read often have, in general, better written grammar and spelling than those who only read what they have to read. Maybe. Except for that pesky fact that pleasure reading among young adults is on the rise. And quite signigicantly I might add. [http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html](http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/82 "2009-10-14T03:15:48Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Maybe. Except for that pesky fact that pleasure reading among young adults is on the rise. And quite signigicantly I might add. > > [http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html](http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html) DAMN these young people reading for mere pleasure! Reading is a DUTY required for Chistian civilization, and only for purposes of procreation among married couples. Reading should be limited to the Bible… and sex manuals. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/83 "2009-10-14T06:04:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Maybe. Except for that pesky fact that pleasure reading among young adults is on the rise. And quite signigicantly I might add. > > [http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html](http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html) Given that the students I teach tend to be in the age range of the referenced research, I would say that they possibly are at the BEGINNING of their forays into reading. I do know that when I ask my students what they read, the response tends to be a blank, deer-in-the-lights expression. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/84 "2009-10-14T06:13:03Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I’ve always thought that in order to have hurt feelings, you’d have to be old enough to be offended–and, of course, alive. I can remember going to the drive in movie theater in my dad and going home in my mother.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/85 "2009-10-14T18:58:30Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Maybe. Except for that pesky fact that pleasure reading among young adults is on the rise. And quite signigicantly I might add. > > [http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html](http://www.nea.gov/news/news09/readingonrise.html) Yeah, but \*\*what \*\*are they reading? People like that \*Twilight \*woman have terrible, terrible, terrible prose. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/86 "2009-10-14T19:11:53Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Given that the students I teach tend to be in the age range of the referenced research, I would say that they possibly are at the BEGINNING of their forays into reading. I do know that when I ask my students what they read, the response tends to be a blank, deer-in-the-lights expression. And what they may be reading may not have been rigorously edited or proofread. Or what **Shot** said. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/87 "2009-10-14T19:18:23Z")
> [@apollonia](#): > > My roommate teaches a media and society course. One assignment was to watch _Crash_ (2005) and write a synopsis of it. Which one student did. > > He had plagiarized the synopsis _off the back of the DVD case._ Heck, a large fraction of those aren’t even about the movie in the DVD (or about the book between the covers). Well, in theory they are, but it’s an easily-disproven hypothesis rather than a scientific theory. Sometimes you get a synopsis for Some Like It Hot which says something like “Sugar (Monroe) and Joe (Curtis) woo the Caribbean in this romantic escapade.” The example has been extracted from my left elbow, but I’ve seen beauties like that way too many times. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/88 "2009-10-14T20:22:47Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yeah, but \*\*what \*\*are they reading? People like that \*Twilight \*woman have terrible, terrible, terrible prose. That’s a very popular series from a mainstream publisher, isn’t it? Whatever you may think of her prose style, I highly doubt that significant spelling or genuine grammatical errors appear with any frequency in her published works… ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/89 "2009-10-14T21:11:21Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yeah, but \*\*what \*\*are they reading? People like that \*Twilight \*woman have terrible, terrible, terrible prose. Irrevelant. Your average “well read” person reads tons of shit (I work in a library, I know what you read). Just because you (the general you, not you you) consider the shit you read to be better than Twilight or [insert derided book series here] doesn’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/90 "2009-10-14T21:34:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Irrevelant. Your average “well read” person reads tons of shit (I work in a library, I know what you read). Just because you (the general you, not you you) consider the shit you read to be better than Twilight or [insert derided book series here] doesn’t make it so. It’s not irrelevant when the writing actually \*\*is \*\*bad. Just because a lot of what makes books “good” or “bad” is subjective doesn’t mean that \*\*all \*\*of it is. Twilight isn’t going to give you the benefits that a well-written book will: it won’t expand your vocabulary, it won’t introduce you to more complex grammatical structure, it won’t even give you well-worded sentences all of the time. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/91 "2009-10-14T21:55:54Z")
It probably won’t teach you to avoid comma splices, either. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/92 "2009-10-15T01:14:57Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > It probably won’t teach you to avoid comma splices, either. Or vampires. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/93 "2009-10-15T01:29:48Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > It’s not irrelevant when the writing actually \*\*is \*\*bad. Just because a lot of what makes books “good” or “bad” is subjective doesn’t mean that \*\*all \*\*of it is. Twilight isn’t going to give you the benefits that a well-written book will: it won’t expand your vocabulary, it won’t introduce you to more complex grammatical structure, it won’t even give you well-worded sentences all of the time. I think you’re off-base here. Viva can vouch for this, but a college essay turned in that was of the prose quality of _Twilight_ would probably be in the very top tier of student essays. [Here’s an excerpt](http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20203238,00.html?iid=top25-20080728-Stephenie+Meyer:+Exclusive+book+preview) from one of her books: > [@](#): > > NO ONE IS STARING AT YOU, I promised myself. No one is staring at you. No one is staring at you. > > But, because I couldn’t lie convincingly even to myself, I had to check. > > As I sat waiting for one of the three traffic lights in town to turn green, I peeked to the right — in her minivan, Mrs. Weber had turned her whole torso in my direction. Her eyes bored into mine, and I flinched back, wondering why she didn’t drop her gaze or look ashamed. It was still considered rude to stare at people, wasn’t it? Didn’t that apply to me anymore? > … > Moving as if I were in a race, I got the hatch open, the cap off, the card scanned, and the nozzle in the tank within seconds. Of course, there was nothing I could do to make the numbers on the gauge pick up the pace. They ticked by sluggishly, almost as if they were doing it just to annoy me. So, not great prose. But there are plenty of complex sentences. There’s a use of the subjunctive in there. There are some words that aren’t super-complicated, but are also not kindergarten-level vocabulary either. Again, a student who’s read plenty of Twilight and who writes as well as Stephanie Meyer will do just fine on the college level. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/94 "2009-10-15T02:17:03Z")
Yep. Leaving aside the issue of content, if my students put together sentences that read like the quote provided by **LHoD** , my job would be orders of magnitude simpler. We’re talking basic things like proper use of subordinate clauses, subject/verb agreement, avoiding dangling modifiers, and a whole bunch of other stuff that competent writers take for granted. A significant proportion of the population finds this sort of thing very difficult, and as a result produces prose that is incredibly bad, and in some cases literally indecipherable… ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/95 "2009-10-15T03:14:11Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Yep. > > Leaving aside the issue of content, if my students put together sentences that read like the quote provided by **LHoD** , my job would be orders of magnitude simpler. > > We’re talking basic things like proper use of subordinate clauses, subject/verb agreement, avoiding dangling modifiers, and a whole bunch of other stuff that competent writers take for granted. A significant proportion of the population finds this sort of thing very difficult, and as a result produces prose that is incredibly bad, and in some cases literally indecipherable.. Precisely. Oh, if only the students could manage at Meyer’s level. That **Raguleader** actually followed directions is a great thing–and a very rare thing among college students, I must say. If I could get them to check the damn syllabus any time after the first week of classes would be a dream come true as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/96 "2009-10-15T13:41:41Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > If I could get them to check the damn syllabus any time after the first week of classes would be a dream come true as well. I had a meeting with a student who’s failing my class yesterday, and he flat out admitted that he’d never even read the syllabus, so his failure to hand in any assignments and his failing the exam was because he simply did not know (and seemingly did not care, based on his blase attitude) when anything was due. I mean, I can help students who are struggling with the course material, but what can you do with someone so detached from something that they voluntarily chose? ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/97 "2009-10-15T15:17:13Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > I went to Shoreline Community College and was repeatedly surprised by how special my basic communication abilities were. I would generally write papers the day before they were due, if not the exact day that they were due, and get a near-perfect grade. I had a similar experience in a history class at Roosevelt University in Chicago. The assignment was to review Tocqueville’s _Democracy in America_, which in truth I found interminably dull and barely even got through it. I struggled to create a paper that I felt was at least coherent enough to get a passing grade. When he returned the papers, the professor took me aside and suggested that pehaps my work was not entirely my own, as it seemed too “polished” to have been written by a mere student. He was careful not to actually _accuse_ me of plagiarism in so many words, but I completely freaked at the insinuation and panickingly tried to assure him I’d written every word. The next day I sent him a stack of my old papers to show him the writing style was consistent, and a full-page single-spaced letter further defending myself. He gave me back the package and told me not to worry – my initial reaction was all he’d needed to convince him I didn’t plagiarize. Well, gosh, thanks. I feel so much better now. I did get an A for the class, though… ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/98 "2009-10-15T15:24:30Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > [Quote= Malleus, Incus, Stapes!] > > Teachers regularly ask me to sub for them, even in subjects that I never took. That settles it. You _are_ the Most Interesting Man in the World[sup]TM[/sup]! [/QUOTE] > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > IIRC, **M,I,S!** is, in fact, female. How Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/99 "2009-10-15T15:29:15Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I had a meeting with a student who’s failing my class yesterday, and he flat out admitted that he’d never even read the syllabus, so his failure to hand in any assignments and his failing the exam was because he simply did not know (and seemingly did not care, based on his blase attitude) when anything was due. > > I mean, I can help students who are struggling with the course material, but what can you do with someone so detached from something that they voluntarily chose? You have to stop interfering with their self-sabotage efforts. 😃 Note: in at least some cases, the failing and/or plagiarizing international students stay enrolled because they have to maintain a certain number of units. That doesn’t mean they have to keep showing up to class after the drop date, though. Why bother? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356/100 "2009-10-15T15:40:34Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > You have to stop interfering with their self-sabotage efforts. 😃 Heh. But that would demonstrate a lack of concern for student retention, one of the major goals of the college! However would I justify my existence? > [@vivalostwages](#): > > Note: in at least some cases, the failing and/or plagiarizing international students stay enrolled because they have to maintain a certain number of units. That doesn’t mean they have to keep showing up to class after the drop date, though. Why bother? My international students are actually usually my best students. They almost always show up, work hard, participate in class discussions. The majority of my failing/plagiarizing students are American-born and raised. I do think that most of them are in college because their parents told them “college, job, or get out of my house,” or they need to stay on their parents’ insurance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-college-students-write-about-abortion/513356.md?page=6)