# When complete and total jerk-asses happen to be right **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273 "2025-06-06T16:30:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/61 "2025-06-13T23:24:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In my view what Marxists got wrong was in taking an essentially religious view of economic & social issues. They had _faith and dogma_ on how society should work, They got hung up on the idea that societies and social mores change to fit the “material necessity” of their economic systems. According to this view then, values are completely malleable. I.E., if you don’t agree with Marxism (or Leninism, or Maoism, etc.) you simply haven’t gotten with the program. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > they were unwilling to change their theories to fit the evidence\*. Why– that would be (choke!)– _[Revisionism!!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionism_(Marxism))_ > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So they’d try out their theories, and when they didn’t work as advertised rather than changing the theories, they forced people to conform to the dogma at gunpoint for decades. Yeah, when someone insists that all possible evidence can be ideologically re-interpreted to fit the dogma, you’re pretty much talking religion rather than science. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/62 "2025-06-13T23:39:37Z")
Pure original v1.0 Marxism is 100% compatible with the humans Marx assumed existed. He assumed wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/63 "2025-06-14T01:50:15Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > They got hung up on the idea that societies and social mores change to fit the “material necessity” of their economic systems. According to this view then, values are completely malleable. I.E., if you don’t agree with Marxism (or Leninism, or Maoism, etc.) you simply haven’t gotten with the program. I’ve felt for a long time that a major reason for that was to justify their dogmatism. If people are completely malleable, then they don’t _need_ to change their perfect system in any way; they can just mold the people into fitting the system instead. ---
**Author:** ![redpoint5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@redpoint5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redpoint5)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/64 "2025-06-14T05:25:27Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > What I think the Marxists got fundamentally wrong was to draw a mistaken analogy between ownership of land in feudal times, and ownership of industrial plant in capitalist times. They got that wrong, too, but more fundamentally, Marxists forgot that human behavior is different in substantial ways from ants and bees. It’s a functional system when the individuals are indistinguishable drones, and behavior adheres to strict stimulus\>response loops, but that doesn’t describe our species at all. Based on historical accounts of Karl’s hygiene, he might have found more fulfillment in a hunter/gatherer tribe, but then they don’t tolerate freeloading like our "advanced’ societies do. He invented a philosophy to rationalize why he still hasn’t cleaned his room yet. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/65 "2025-06-16T12:35:09Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > You should do that with everyone, shouldn’t you? Good person, bad person, it doesn’t matter - you should always verify whatever you’re told. > > There are people who put the work in, who you KNOW are doing their due diligence before they speak. There are also people who you KNOW aren’t doing anything like due diligence. > > Nobody has time (or expertise) to personally verify everything everyone tells them. I think you’re both right in a way; I think it’s relative. Whether I feel the need to verify a claim is a function of how extraordinary the claim is, and the past reliability of the source. If it’s something really surprising or consequential, I’ll look into it regardless of where I heard it. But below that, there are levels of claim that I would accept from a generally reliable / qualified source, but take with a pinch of salt or need further verification from a source that has lied or embellished in the past. Anyway, it’s a bit of a tangent from the OP, I just wanted to say that it’s neither about taking things on faith, nor bullishly rejecting sources we don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/66 "2025-06-16T13:12:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > What are some examples you know of of “it’s a shame someone like that has be right”? Things that you’re outright grudging in conceding? Anything Stephen A. Smith says, to be honest, because I have always found him very annoying and pompous. His latest was a prediction before the NBA Finals started that, basically, Indiana didn’t belong on the same court as OKC. The series is presently tied 2-2. Anyway, I am currently annoyed with what I consider to be his correct assessment of the firing of Knick’s coach Tom Thibodeau after five seasons. It wasn’t about wins and losses or ability, his firing was a result of a player driven league and the fact that Tom Thibodeau wouldn’t kow-tow to the players’ desire for more “load management” and less day to day intensity. Owners are terrified at upsetting the players because they will leave via free agency and others will not come to your team. I don’t give him too much credit, though. I comfort myself with this thought: “Even a blind pig finds mud once in a while.” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/67 "2025-06-24T02:24:21Z")
Getting back to the OP topic, right now the noxious trolls known as Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor-Greene are making valid criticism of Trump’s military attack on Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/68 "2025-06-24T04:57:45Z")
Yes, Tucker Carlson taking Ted Cruz to task for not having a basic understanding of Iran as a country while advocating for US military action. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/69 "2025-06-24T10:06:27Z")
It was much more than that; Tucker generally questioned the motivations of getting involved in a war on the basis of dubious claims, pointing out the money that Cruz has received from the Israel lobby. Really worth watching the whole interview if you haven’t. Tucker doesn’t hold back; it’s like he’s possessed by Mehdi Hasan. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/70 "2025-06-24T15:53:58Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Really worth watching the whole interview if you haven’t. I plan to. Normally wouldn’t give Tucker Carlson a shit sandwich if he were starving, but the snips I’ve seen are brutal to the pompous ass that passes for my Senator. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/71 "2025-06-24T16:03:53Z")
If it helps, there’s an uncomfortable bit near the end where Cruz points out how much tucker simps for Russia and questions _his_ motivations and funding. It’s really a lose-lose interview, which means it’s win win for the rational world; just make sure you have enough popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/72 "2025-06-24T16:04:08Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Really worth watching the whole interview if you haven’t. Tucker doesn’t hold back; it’s like he’s possessed by Mehdi Hasan. _And what happened then? Well…in Whoville they say,_ _That Tucker’s small brain grew three sizes that day!_ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/73 "2025-06-24T17:03:05Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > _And what happened then? Well…in Whoville they say,_ > _That Tucker’s small brain grew three sizes that day!_ Does that mean he’s finally improved to being a half-wit? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/74 "2025-06-24T17:09:40Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Does that mean he’s finally improved to being a half-wit? At least briefly. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/75 "2025-06-24T17:10:54Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > …Cruz points out how much tucker simps for Russia and questions _his_ motivations and funding. …and which also ties into the OP topic as well, a complete and total jerk-ass (Cruz) happening to be right. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/76 "2025-06-24T18:23:54Z")
As [Hilaire Belloc](https://mail.public-domain-poetry.com/hilaire-belloc) put it: > Lump says that Caliban’s of gutter breed, > And Caliban says Lump’s a fool indeed, > And Caliban and Lump and I are all agreed. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273/77 "2025-06-24T20:12:15Z")
I find myself more than willing to take everyone’s commentary on the Tucker/Cruz fight without watching it myself. I don’t want to drive traffic Tucker’s way by clicking on links or anything else that might help him. It is though nice to get confirmation that he’s a knowing tool of evil (way past mincing words) rather than incompetent. And back to the thread’s point, that makes it that much more important when someone happens to be right while a complete and total jerk. Assuming they _aren’t_ incompetent, you really need to know what agenda they’re pursuing, and how your support may well be solicited, knowingly or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-complete-and-total-jerk-asses-happen-to-be-right/1019273.md?page=3)