# When did a white guy wearing black makeup became unacceptable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411 "2011-01-21T02:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/1 "2011-01-21T02:54:18Z")
I’m watching the 1st episode of “Kids In The Hall” from 1989, and there’s a character “Mississippi Gary”, a black blues guy played by one of the white guys in black makeup. I also recall Billy Crystal on SNL repeatedly doing his imitation of Sammy Davis Jr, in black makeup, in the mid 80’s. To my knowledge, these bits weren’t considered offensive, but I certainly could have missed any outrage (since it was before we had the SDMB and the BBQ Pit for discussing recreational outrage). I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t fly today. Did something specific happen, or was it just gradual changing of sensibilities? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/2 "2011-01-21T02:57:42Z")
Robert Downey, Jr. played a black guy in _Tropic Thunder_, and it didn’t raise much of a stir. I think it’s mostly just a problem when it’s done for satire, not when it’s a realistic depiction. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/3 "2011-01-21T03:11:44Z")
It depends on the portrayal. Ted Danson got all sorts of (justified) criticism when he performed in blackface for an awards show (even though he asked Whoopi Goldberg if it was OK). But that was minstrel show blackface, which is completely anethema. OTOH, Fred Armisen, a white guy, has been portraying Barak Obama for several years on SNL with barely a peep from anyone. If you’re doing it for comic effect, then it’s probably OK, as long as you stay away from the offensive stereotypes like minstrel shows. For a dramatic role, it’d probably raise some hackles. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/4 "2011-01-21T03:13:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Robert Downey, Jr. played a black guy in _Tropic Thunder_, and it didn’t raise much of a stir. I think it’s mostly just a problem when it’s done for satire, not when it’s a realistic depiction. White actors in blackface are pretty much verboten in the States, though it’s difficult to tell exactly when it became completely taboo. Not so much in Australia, though: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0qi5sJRywY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0qi5sJRywY) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/5 "2011-01-21T03:13:28Z")
It’s not skin-darkening makeup as such that’s potentially offensive; it’s [blackface](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/6 "2011-01-21T03:14:43Z")
Darrell Hammond used to do Jesse Jackson as well, and no one batted an eye. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/7 "2011-01-21T03:20:17Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfiNT6AKG0s) This one is from 1950. It’s some kind of tribute to old time entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/8 "2011-01-21T03:24:29Z")
There’s a difference between a white actor portraying a black character, and blackface. Darrell Hammond as Jesse Jackson is making fun of a specific celebrity. Al Jolson in blackface is making fun of black people. Also, Robert Downey Jr.'s character in _Tropic Thunder_ was white. He was just pretending to be black for the movie his character was starring in. While I’m at it, Ted Danson’s blackface routine wasn’t at an award show, it was at a roast. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/9 "2011-01-21T03:31:27Z")
Thre’s a difference between minstrelsy and a studied impersonation of a specific black person or character; I didn’t see **Tropic Thunder,** but I gather Robert Downey Jr.'s character didn’t act shiftless, gobble watermelon or make sucking sounds at passing white women. It’s a question of intent. BTW, Fred Armisen is of Hispanic origin, so it’s not like some blonde preppie is cooning it up in blackface as Obama. When did blackface become unacceptable? Hard to say. It was still a semi-respectable Hollywood trope as recently as the early 70s, or whenever Richard Burton last played Othello. Michelle Shocked once did an album substantially consisting of minstrel-type music, just to remind us all where we came from, culturally. It was her best album to date. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/10 "2011-01-21T03:39:45Z")
Downey in _Tropic Thunder_ was actually playing a white character who himself was an actor playing a black character. It was a satirization of Hollywood egos and actors’ stunts to win Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/11 "2011-01-21T03:46:27Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Ted Danson got all sorts of (justified) criticism when he performed in blackface for an awards show (even though he asked Whoopi Goldberg if it was OK). I had forgotten all about this, but I remember how he apparently thought because he was “getting at” Whoopi, he somehow had a pass on the minstrel show action…:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/12 "2011-01-21T03:52:35Z")
[QUOTE=fuzzypickles] Not so much in Australia, though: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0qi5sJRywY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0qi5sJRywY) [/QUOTE] An irony of that is the guys were of Indian and Pakistani descent. It wasn’t uncommon for _black_ performers- especially light skinned ones- to don blackface even as late as the 1920s. I’ve seen Bing Crosby in blackface in 1930s movies, but that’s evidently about when the backlash began because you rarely see it after that except in movies like _The Al Jolson Story_ (in scenes set in the 1920s). Archie Bunker was wearing blackface in the episode of _All in the Family_ where his grandson was born and by then it was a major taboo. So I’d say it was on its way out by World War II and the Civil Rights movement killed it off as acceptable entertainment. This is in the U.S. only; other countries without the minstrel show baggage still have elements of it such as Zwarte Piet ([Black Peter](http://ladyplum.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/sinterklaas.jpg)) in Spain and the Low Countries and St. Nicholas’s [Six to Eight Black Men](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbJpRLhaSqs). ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/13 "2011-01-21T04:55:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > An irony of that is the guys were of Indian and Pakistani descent. How is that ironic? Unless you’re talking about racism in general… OTOH, portraying Michael Jackson in “whiteface” is, indeed, ironic. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/14 "2011-01-21T05:20:19Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > An irony of that is the guys were of Indian and Pakistani descent. > > It wasn’t uncommon for _black_ performers- especially light skinned ones- to don blackface even as late as the 1920s. I’ve seen Bing Crosby in blackface in 1930s movies, but that’s evidently about when the backlash began because you rarely see it after that except in movies like _The Al Jolson Story_ (in scenes set in the 1920s). Archie Bunker was wearing blackface in the episode of _All in the Family_ where his grandson was born and by then it was a major taboo. He did it in Holiday Inn (1942) celebrating Lincoln’s Birthday and IIRC the act included stereotyped pickaninnies too. That scene is often cut when the movie is shown today. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/15 "2011-01-21T05:27:12Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Thre’s a difference between minstrelsy and a studied impersonation of a specific black person or character; I didn’t see **Tropic Thunder,** but I gather Robert Downey Jr.'s character didn’t act shiftless, gobble watermelon or make sucking sounds at passing white women. It’s a question of intent. > … > When did blackface become unacceptable? Hard to say. It was still a semi-respectable Hollywood trope as recently as the early 70s, or whenever Richard Burton last played Othello. Did Richard Burton’s Othello act shiftless, gobble watermelon, and make sucking sounds at passing white women? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/16 "2011-01-21T07:09:18Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > He did it in Holiday Inn (1942) celebrating Lincoln’s Birthday and IIRC the act included stereotyped pickaninnies too. That scene is often cut when the movie is shown today. [Oh My Frigging Damn](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIOhat9A5Q0)- wasn’t aware of that. I’ve only seen the cut version. I’m more offended by Louise Beavers (the large black lady) singing about Lincoln settin’ the darkies free than I am by the white she-pickaninny; at least the white actors probably weren’t embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/17 "2011-01-21T07:17:53Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Did Richard Burton’s Othello act shiftless, gobble watermelon, and make sucking sounds at passing white women? Only in the wacky outtakes. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/18 "2011-01-21T07:24:34Z")
What exactly does it mean to “act shiftless?” ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/19 "2011-01-21T07:35:48Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > What exactly does it mean to “act shiftless?” To act lazy, or to lack ambition. To be dishonest. To be unwilling or unable to hold a respectable job. This was a commonly held stereotype of black people that went hand-in-hand with the fondness of watermelon and the other stereotypes bigoted people held. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411/20 "2011-01-21T07:39:13Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > **When did a white guy wearing black makeup became unacceptable?** Sometime after [Eddie](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFPgCGlxQa0) [Cantor.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ4pRjVWefM&feature=related) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-a-white-guy-wearing-black-makeup-became-unacceptable/568411.md?page=2)