# When did America \*stop\* being "great?" (If you believe it to be the case) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 2, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579 "2016-08-02T20:26:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/61 "2016-08-06T10:58:52Z")
Ask Michelle O. As I recall she was not proud of America during the 2008 run for office. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/62 "2016-08-06T11:54:42Z")
Well after years of torturing people it can be hard, if you’re a decent country, to look yourself in the eye. How about we start there? Lets use when Americans spent huge amounts of effort to justify torture. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/63 "2016-08-06T12:11:34Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Well after years of torturing people it can be hard, if you’re a decent country, to look yourself in the eye. > > How about we start there? Discounting what was done to native Indians (though why would we … ) and at places like the Andersonville prison ‘camp’, [that would be around 1900](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cure_%28torture%29#Philippine.E2.80.93American_War). ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/64 "2016-08-06T12:11:56Z")
The day we stopped going to the Moon. Truly, it was a glorious achievement, & then…we gave up on glory. Instead, we spent our money on “Drug War Command Posts” and building new jails. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/65 "2016-08-10T17:17:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > A society is defined by borders, language and customs. One of the major things that has contributed to the decay of our society is that we are no longer a melting pot. The “salad bowl” has replaced it. Not to mention that we, for all practical purposes, no longer have a southern border, and we do not have an official language. NPR looked into the study calling Houston the country’s[Most Diverse City](http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/07/01/195909643/tx2020-houston-racial-ethnic-diversity-americas-future): > [@](#): > > To see the speed of demographic change in Texas, look no further than its largest city — Houston. Only 40 percent of the city’s population is non-Hispanic white, and by a Rice University count, it’s the most racially and ethnically diverse city in America. > > “Houston is an immigrant magnet,” says Glenda Joe, a Chinese-Texan community organizer whose extended family came to Houston in the 1880s. > > “Texas looks like me. I’m half-Chinese; I’m half-Irish,” she says. “I also do business; I work with universities; I also ride horses. That’s what Texas is.” Check out the Houston Independent School District’s [Multilingual Education](http://www.houstonisd.org/multilingual) page. > [@](#): > > Languages spoken in HISD include Spanish, Arabic, Vietnamese, Chinese (Mandarin), Urdu, and Nepali. (Given the number of adults\* paying\* for ESL courses, I don’t see the English Language disappearing from the city.) Would you prefer to live in Vidor? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/66 "2016-08-10T18:45:16Z")
> [@Mr.Lebodnik](#): > > When the hippy sixties generation got a little older and started taking over. I would perhaps bring that back a bit to the baby boomers coddling their kids a little too much and leading to the hippie generation. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/67 "2016-08-10T19:16:25Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > The day we stopped going to the Moon. > Truly, it was a glorious achievement, & then…we gave up on glory. > Instead, we spent our money on “Drug War Command Posts” and building new jails. Actually, right about then was when there was a huge shift in the Federal budget making social programs a ever-increasing chunk of the Federal pie. I think that somewhere in that same time period, the country started turning more inward and became more pessimistic somehow. I mean, I was born in 1972, and I’m somewhat nostalgic for that 1950s/1960s space-age optimism that seems to have been in vogue- the idea that science and technology and smart solutions can solve problems and that there is a lot of progress that’s been made, and more to come. And the nation was willing to spend a lot of money to achieve things like the moon landings, the development of nuclear power, the beginnings of the internet and the computing revolution, and a host of other things. If I had to pick a time when the country ceased being great, somewhere around 1970-1972 would be it. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/68 "2016-08-11T03:43:49Z")
In the late 70’s you might have had an argument that America was going down hill. Today, though, by most reasonable measures Americans are as good or better than any prior generation. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/69 "2016-08-11T05:17:18Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I would perhaps bring that back a bit to the baby boomers coddling their kids a little too much and leading to the hippie generation. The baby boomers _were_ the “hippie generation.” Well, not _all_ of us. It’s unwise go generalize about generations… ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/70 "2016-08-11T13:04:44Z")
In the early 1940s we changed the definition of ‘Great.’ Before that the US was great in technology, education, agriculture, a host of areas, but not so much in soldiers and armaments. Now the US is the greatest at kicking ass. We’re still pretty good in some other areas but unquestionably #1 at ass kicking, any time, anywhere on earth. So still ‘great’, only different. Or maybe it was disco in the 70’s. We’ve never really recovered our greatness after that disaster. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/71 "2016-08-11T14:10:48Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > In the early 1940s we changed the definition of ‘Great.’ Before that the US was great in technology, education, agriculture, a host of areas, but not so much in soldiers and armaments. Now the US is the greatest at kicking ass. We’re still pretty good in some other areas but unquestionably #1 at ass kicking, any time, anywhere on earth. So still ‘great’, only different. > > Or maybe it was disco in the 70’s. We’ve never really recovered our greatness after that disaster. Despite all that, we spend roughly half as much, Federal budget percentage-wise, on defense as we did in the late 1960s-early 1970s. I think the post-WWII change in the national defense stature is more a result of WWII and the subsequent Cold War and other geo-political changes . For example, prior to WWII, the British Royal Navy was the world’s pre-eminent naval power- they did most of the gunboat diplomacy and pirate-fighting, and general sea policing that there was to be done. After the war, we assumed that mantle for two reasons- first, the British Empire was on the wane, and the US was on the rise in terms of overseas trade, which necessitated a larger US naval presence on shipping lanes, and second, we had the largest navy in the world by far in 1945. Basically, before about 1940, we could afford to have a tiny military, as we more or less were isolated from the world by the two oceans and had two neighbors who were friendly, and we let the Royal Navy do the heavy lifting. After the war, we had the Cold War and a clear adversary, as well as having to take over for the Royal Navy. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/72 "2016-08-11T14:31:28Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The baby boomers _were_ the “hippie generation.” > > Well, not _all_ of us. It’s unwise go generalize about generations… I stand corrected, I thought the boomers were the ones causing the boom by having the babies. 😉 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/73 "2016-08-11T18:52:27Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Is a cerealia like a bacchanalia for carb-phobes, a brief annual outburst of otherwise-forbidden bread-eating without guilt? 😛 hehe > [@](#): > > Methinks it was a joke. Egad, methinks you may be right :smack: ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/74 "2016-08-11T19:40:16Z")
When Trump starting running for president! He is making America _hate_ again ! ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/75 "2016-08-11T23:51:00Z")
The day they added “under God” to the pledge was the day I stopped saying the pledge. Escalating the war in Vietnam we lost a lot of greatness. The day the Newt decided that obstruction rather than compromise was the job of the opposition was another such occasion. The day that states were allowed to outlaw union shops led, very gradually to the race to the bottom that has destroyed unions. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/76 "2016-08-12T14:42:25Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > 6:18 pm, April 19th, 1971 Absolutely. It was IIRC my high school senior skip day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579/77 "2016-08-12T14:47:28Z")
it’s worth noting that over the past 20 years the inflation-adjusted median household income in the U.S. has gone absolutely nowhere, and per capita GDP growth over this same period has been anemic: [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Real_Household_Median_Income_thru_2014.png) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_Real_Household_Median_Income_thru_2014.png) > **[We’re in a Low-Growth World. How Did We Get Here? (Published 2016)](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/upshot/were-in-a-low-growth-world-how-did-we-get-here.html?_r=0)** > > Economic growth in advanced nations has been weaker for longer than it has been in most people’s lifetimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-america-stop-being-great-if-you-believe-it-to-be-the-case/761579.md?page=3)