I was listing reasons that I distrust government power. I was not attempting to make the case that government has failed on that basis alone. It was merely evidence of the Law of Unintended Consequences in government action.
I’ve never said that unions are bad. I’m not exactly a huge fan of them, but I have nothing against the principle of organized labor. I don’t exactly support laws that help unions at the expense of corporations, but neither do I favor the laws protecting the owners of a corporation from liability.
Given the fact that Nobel Laureates in economics also fall for this, I feel pretty safe in saying it is at least not naiveity to accept the general principles in The Wealth of Nations. As for the Cato Institute, I certainly never said anything to imply that I believe them to be exempt from general human fallibility. Are you trying to say that they are known liars or do you think so little of me as to assume that I simply agree with everything they say without thought.
No. We wish to deny the right to coerce to both corporations and government. Given the power over people that the government has, and the lack of alternatives, we believe that even substantially less vice than can be found in an average corporation has a much larger potential to make life suck for individuals. If I refuse to deal with the Ford Motor Company, I won’t be able to get the car I want (Mazda Miata). If I refuse to deal with the US government, I go to jail. Thus I’m far more worried about what the latter can do.
When a corporation royally fucks up, you get Bhopal. When the government royally fucks up, you get the Vietnam War.
[list=1][li]Care to guess how many regulations governing safe operations Union Carbide was faced with in their Bhopal facility? Care to guess how many more regulations the same facility would face if it were in the US? Care to compare injury/death rates in the US vs India? Ooops; sorry, we can’t compare injury rates, because India doesn’t even keep those kinds of records.[*]Vietnam… wow; you’re right! This teaches us that our government can’t be trusted with military power! Let’s downsize US armed forces to the minimum necessary to defend our borders and stop initiating force in these exotic places. It’s not as if we have any global obligations or interests to protect. :rolleyes:[/list=1][/li]
Oh, and GO NAVY.
I was simply showing the vast differences in the amount of destruction that each is capable of. My argument was that I want to keep government power minimized not because I believe it is inherently more evil than corporations, but beause the consequences of a similar level of malfeasance are so much higher.
The benefits of a strong military provide a compelling reason (to me) to live with the risk of another Vietnam, at least in the world as it is now. I would advocate steps to reduce this risk however. One idea that springs to mind is to stop allowing undeclared wars.
I have already expressed my views on this OP but a few tangent points;
the quote
which I have cited many times in this board is from P.J. O’Rourke
In threads like these I have seen mentioned several times the book The Road To Serfdom by Hayek. I have started reading it and it is amazing in its insight and its foresight. I am still amazed to know it was written so many years ago.
waterj2, I understand your point regarding the consequences of governmental abuse of power vs. the consequences of corporate mischief. Please consider the converse comparison, which I attempted to illustrate: the consequences of totally unregulated business vs. limited government oversight of business operations.
Also, thank you for understanding my sarcastic comment re: Vietnam. I share your feelings about “undeclared” wars. (So, I think, do Congress and most of the American public.)
You’ll get no argument from me that the converse situation is worse. The regulatory approach that the US takes protects the workers from coercion while inflicting coercion on the corporation. This is of course not my ideal situation. I know that as a libertarian I’m supposed to be a fan of big corporations, but I’m an American, dammit, and if there is an American tradition stronger than capitalism it is sticking up for the underdog.
As for Vietnam, I would probably also support legislation requiring members of the Nation Security Council (Pres., SecDef, SecState, CJCS, DCI, I believe) to have to walk past the Vietnam War Memorial when they meet every day.
i was wondering if it might be a good idea to distinguish between micro-capitalism and macro-capitalism. walmart wiping out mom and pop’s is a case of macro-capitalism killing microcapitalism. how many businesses do you suppose had more than 1,000 employees when adam smith wrote? 10,000 employees? adam smith objected to what he called joint stock companies which we now call corporations, but could we possibly manufacture automobiles at a reasonable price without corporations? the technological changes that began around 1880 forced economic changes which will probably continue FOREVER. we have to decide how to cope with the
changes.
i confess i get annoyed with blind loyaty to ideas, be it capitalism, socialism or whatever. the financial power of large corporations has MADE THEM GOVERNMENTS. for the invisible hand to work consumers have to understand more about accounting and technology and psychology. trash the liberal arts garbage. 4 years of english literature, FOR WHAT?
