# When did Black people become the REAL racists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 12, 2012, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977 "2012-07-12T06:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/41 "2012-07-12T21:48:16Z")
Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/42 "2012-07-12T22:31:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, they wouldn’t. They would say “thanks for voting for me when I’m offering you nothing” and laugh their asses off. If you vote for someone for no reason, they have no reason to pander to you - you’ve just told them you’ll give them your vote for free. They need to give you a reason to vote for them. You don’t vote for them and then hope they’ll provide a rational reason for your past vote in four years. This is a little bit pointless in that this isn’t how people vote anyway- they vote more or less individually and don’t decide how to apportion their votes as a group. But no, it doesn’t make sense for non-conservative black people to vote Republican in the hope that Republicans will start targeting black votes in the future. That’s unlikely to happen. Candidates who are voted in due to the black vote will have to pander to them. That’s what politicians do. And it does make sense for the points I’ve already noted. The Democrats would stop taking them for granted and the Republicans would actually make more of an effort then you’re gving them credit for (look at the Regan Democrats, many of whom stayed with the party). And I’m using credit in a morally neutral way insofar as they would do so solely because it suited them and would be in their interests. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/43 "2012-07-12T22:32:37Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > That said, I agree that the “Blacks are racist” accusation (normally used by white racists), is a variation on the Rovian practice of accusing your enemies of what you do yourself much more, and much more evilly, in order to then call it equivalent and therefore baseless. Rovian? That tactic is a lot older than that and the Clinton’s were doing it better than anyone, even Rove. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/44 "2012-07-12T23:14:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Now that’s some finely crafted sarcasm. Thank you. A craftsman is always grateful for the praise given good work. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/45 "2012-07-12T23:21:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Show me where on the Dope someone has been accused of racism solely for not liking Obama. Do you even read the threads? You’ve honestly never seen a post when someone talks about being against Obama or one of his policies and the response is “They don’t like him because he’s Black.”? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/46 "2012-07-12T23:43:22Z")
For Ibn Warraq just from searching “black” and “Obama”. I know there are other posts that are better examples. In response to \*\*What’s the gist of this Executive Order, and why might my cousin characterize it as “evil”? \*\* > [@What's the gist of this Executive Order, and why might my cousin characterize it as "evil"?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-gist-of-this-executive-order-and-why-might-my-cousin-characterize-it-as-evil/627962/2): > > Well Obama is black, so that makes it a gazillion times worse than when white presidents did it. If it weren’t for the fact that Obama has seized all the guns already I expect that there would be armed revolt. Referring to a reporter heckling the President [QUOTE=Shakes] Would this be such a terrible rule? (By taken out I mean ejected from the event.) Another example of the President being disrespected. I guess it’s just a coincidence he happens to be black. [/QUOTE] To BobLibDem’s question “If Obama loses, how could someone else be more centrist?” [QUOTE=ReallyNotThatBright] Not be black. It would help if he avoided visiting other countries, too. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/47 "2012-07-13T02:28:58Z")
Just re-reading your posts Marley23 and I see your point about Presidential elections. I don’t think it’s applicable in day tight Congressional races. If there were a meaningful shift such that it impacted these races then politicians, being a venal lot, would react accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/48 "2012-07-13T03:05:48Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > [In a recent bloggingheads.tv stream](http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/10084?in=14:50&out=20:00) (~5mins) that I intermittently follow involving [Glenn Loury](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Loury) (Brown University) and [John McWhorter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McWhorter) (The Root, What Language Is); Glenn and John talk about how the conservative movement tends to (unknowingly) drive out black/African-American right intellectuals by refusing them the comfort of ethnically identifying as black/AA. I completely reject that premise. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/49 "2012-07-13T04:13:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Do you even read the threads? You’ve honestly never seen a post when someone talks about being against Obama or one of his policies and the response is “They don’t like him because he’s Black.”? No–people are accused of not liking Obama because they’re racist. I haven’t seen anyone accused of being racist because they don’t like Obama. I might similarly accuse someone of being an asshole because they kick puppies; that’s different from accusing someone of kicking puppies because they’re an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/50 "2012-07-13T04:25:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No–people are accused of not liking Obama because they’re racist. I haven’t seen anyone accused of being racist because they don’t like Obama. > > I might similarly accuse someone of being an asshole because they kick puppies; that’s different from accusing someone of kicking puppies because they’re an asshole. For my part, I kick puppies because puppies are assholes. Always pissing on everything, always crushing for attention, and they just won’t shut up . . . :mad: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/51 "2012-07-13T06:23:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No–people are accused of not liking Obama because they’re racist. I haven’t seen anyone accused of being racist because they don’t like Obama. I don’t think you have looked very hard. There are a lot of posts on this board claiming that all the opposition from the Tea Party is race based or that any number of other people opposed Obama or his policies because he is black. I would not venture a guess which accusation is more prevalent, but there are clearly posters who have expressed the cause and effect in each direction. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/52 "2012-07-13T06:48:13Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > That’s unlikely to happen. Candidates who are voted in due to the black vote will have to pander to them. That’s what politicians do. And it does make sense for the points I’ve already noted. The Democrats would stop taking them for granted and the Republicans would actually make more of an effort then you’re gving them credit for (look at the Regan Democrats, many of whom stayed with the party). And I’m using credit in a morally neutral way insofar as they would do so solely because it suited them and would be in their interests. No, The whole point of the Republican’s Southern Strategy, which although thew now disown, they still follow, is that ‘pandering’ to black voters will cost them more white votes than it will gain them black votes. If they can get blacks to vote for them without providing any tangible benefits, they are in effect having their cake and eating it too. It is true that the social math of divisive racial politics is changing, and perhaps what you suggest will eventually happen. But it hasn’t happened yet, and the way the party is going ever further to the right, it’s not happening real soon. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/53 "2012-07-13T09:05:04Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I completely reject that premise. I don’t know why, and I don’t mean this in any sort of derogatory fashion, but for some reason that made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/54 "2012-07-13T13:45:11Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > No, The whole point of the Republican’s Southern Strategy, which although thew now disown, they still follow, is that ‘pandering’ to black voters will cost them more white votes than it will gain them black votes. If they can get blacks to vote for them without providing any tangible benefits, they are in effect having their cake and eating it too. > > It is true that the social math of divisive racial politics is changing, and perhaps what you suggest will eventually happen. But it hasn’t happened yet, and the way the party is going ever further to the right, it’s not happening real soon. The party has shifted emphasis before and will likely do so again. Indeed it may very well have to. Eventually the interests of Blacks and Hispanics will likely not be aligned and a divergence will occur. That’s not a bad thing as a healthy democracy benefits all of us. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/55 "2012-07-13T18:02:21Z")
How in the world does it make even the slightest amount of sense to pander to people who are already voting for you? And in what world is it okay to vote for people whose policies you believe are harming the country just so you can get more power? The Republicans will start pandering to blacks when they finally see it consistently costing them elections, without anyone having to compromise their principles. ---
**Author:** ![Blkshp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blkshp/32/7135_2.png) [@Blkshp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blkshp)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/56 "2012-07-13T21:14:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > For my part, I kick puppies because puppies are assholes. Always pissing on everything, always crushing for attention, and they just won’t shut up . . . :mad: What color puppies? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/57 "2012-07-13T21:37:57Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I don’t think you have looked very hard. I confined my looking to the evidence **Saint Cad** offered for his claim. > [@](#): > > There are a lot of posts on this board claiming that all the opposition from the Tea Party is race based …i.e., that the Tea Party doesn’t like Obama because they’re racist, right? > [@](#): > > or that any number of other people opposed Obama or his policies because he is black. i.e., that those other people don’t like Obama because they’re racist, right? I absolutely agree that such accusations fly. What I said I haven’t seen is the flipped accusation: that mere dislike of Obama proves racism, or that people are racist because they dislike Obama. I might say that a creature has four legs because it’s a cow, but that’s very different from saying it’s a cow because it has four legs. If someone is racist, that’s sufficient evidence that they’re gonna dislike Obama; that argument gets made all the time. The claim was that people say that if someone dislikes Obama, that’s sufficient evidence that they’re racist. I’m not sure I’ve seen people make that claim. Certainly not in the examples offered by **Saint Cad**. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/58 "2012-07-13T22:33:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …i.e., that the Tea Party doesn’t like Obama because they’re racist, right? Yes, but the evidence offered that they are racist is that they dislike Obama. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If someone is racist, that’s sufficient evidence that they’re gonna dislike Obama; that argument gets made all the time. The claim was that people say that if someone dislikes Obama, that’s sufficient evidence that they’re racist. I’m not sure I’ve seen people make that claim. Certainly not in the examples offered by **Saint Cad**. I am not limiting my references to those of **Saint Cad** , (which might explain our different viewpoints), but long before a couple of loud Teabaggers made explicitly racist claims, there were cries on this board that “those people” simply hate Obama because he is black. For that matter, while the majority of members of the Tea Party movement have seriousy failed to distance themselves from the racist elements within it, (which I suspect has more to do with the individualistic approach they take to life–in which they simply do not consider riding herd on each other to be a high priority–than to any support, open or tacit, for their racist brethren), the movement had its first stirrings under GWB, not Obama, yet there are still posters who have claimed that they are in opposition only because Obama is black. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/59 "2012-07-13T23:48:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am not limiting my references to those of **Saint Cad** , (which might explain our different viewpoints), but long before a couple of loud Teabaggers made explicitly racist claims, there were cries on this board that “those people” simply hate Obama because he is black. For that matter, while the majority of members of the Tea Party movement have seriousy failed to distance themselves from the racist elements within it, (which I suspect has more to do with the individualistic approach they take to life–in which they simply do not consider riding herd on each other to be a high priority–than to any support, open or tacit, for their racist brethren), the movement had its first stirrings under GWB, not Obama, yet there are still posters who have claimed that they are in opposition only because Obama is black. Citation needed. Not because I categorically reject what you’re saying, but because I’m unfamiliar with the posts you’re talking about, and am not sure you’re describing them accurately. In any case, this may be a bit of semantic quibbling. The idea that anyone would say, “Not liking Obama is proof of racism,” or anything along those lines, is ludicrous. It’s perfectly plausible, though, that someone has misread someone’s dislike of Obama as **a symptom of racism** ; and if that’s all you or **Saint Cad** is claiming, I got no beef with it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977/60 "2012-07-14T01:33:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Citation needed. [Will this thread work?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=623810) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-black-people-become-the-real-racists/627977.md?page=4)