# When Did Books Start Having... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701 "2004-04-18T20:00:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KathyF37](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@KathyF37](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KathyF37)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701/1 "2004-04-18T20:00:23Z")
two titles, or more correctly a Title & a Subtitle? It occurred to me in reading this morning’s book review section, that everyone did. No just “Gone With The Wind” or “Great Expectations” or “how to Win Friends & Influence People”. So… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701/2 "2004-04-18T20:29:53Z")
Samuel Richardson is sometimes referred to as the first novelist. His first two books were _Pamela: Or Virtue Rewarded_ and _Clarissa: Or the History of a Young Lady_ You might, however, be the type who thinks that Cervantes got there first, with _Don Quixote: The Ingenious Hidalgo De La Mancha_. In short, subtitles go all the way back to the beginnings of modern literature. As literary fads, they come and go with some eras preferring simplicity and some preferring prolixity and some, like ours, mixing the two indiscriminately. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701/3 "2004-04-19T14:48:19Z")
Early printed books tended to have long titles and even longer subtitles. This was because many printers liked to fill up the whole titlepage with text and because the subtitles could serve as a blurb to entice a potential purchaser. (And remember that early books were displayed by booksellers without covers, so it was the titlepage that a customer would see first.) Early novels often copied the style. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701/4 "2004-04-19T15:13:55Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > You might, however, be the type who thinks that Cervantes got there first, with _Don Quixote: The Ingenious Hidalgo De La Mancha_. This is incorrect. The title of the book has always been “Vida del Ingenioso Hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha”. You can see facsimiles of the covers of the first edition (1605) [here](http://www.ayuntamientocastrodelrio.org/frame_centro/castro/historia/villa_cervantina.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701/5 "2004-04-19T15:36:22Z")
**Exapno** : Samuel Richardson? I always thought _The Tale of Genji_ was the first novel. What, exactly, defines a novel? What sets a novel apart from a religious story or a legend? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701/6 "2004-04-19T15:58:36Z")
Nothing exactly defines a novel. The arguments are mostly ways for English professors to get tenure. The definition also varies from era to era and place to place. I assure you that back when I was in college no one ever mentioned The Tale of Genji. I apologize to **sailor** for my English-language chauvinism. But as **APB** notes, my point about the antiquity of subtitles stands even if this one example doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-books-start-having/240701/7 "2004-04-20T01:26:26Z")
\*\*The Fortunes and Misfortunes of Moll Flanders Who Was Born In Newgate, and During a Life of Continu’d Variety For Threescore Years, Besides Her Childhood, Was Twelve Year a Whore, Five Times a Wife [Whereof Once To Her Own Brother], Twelve Year a Thief, Eight Year a Transported Felon In Virginia, At Last Grew Rich, Liv’d Honest, and Died a Penitent \*\* By Daniel Defoe, 1722. Not just a title, it is its own Cliff Notes…