# When did "cocksucker" become synonymous with "homosexual"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2002, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035 "2002-07-15T10:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/101 "2002-07-17T12:41:38Z")
Oh, **Kelly** , what a moral highground you stand on. Must be a whole two inches above him. :rolleyes: Do the women here think the word makes fun of gays and not them? I’m interested to know, you know, just so I can be sure who I’m avoiding insulting. I like low-grade paranoia in my language, not high-grade, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/102 "2002-07-17T12:45:36Z")
**erislover** : It’s not like it was someone who actually mattered. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/103 "2002-07-17T12:54:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*And this, dearest Marc, is why a great many of us here consider you to be a irredeemable, obnoxious bastard not generally worthy of response or interest whatsoever. You sow what you reap. \*\* Are you the president of my fan club or something? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Syzygy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Syzygy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syzygy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/104 "2002-07-17T14:27:05Z")
To all the people who want to use the word “cocksucker” as an insult without offending homosexuals, just wait a couple of generations. After all, according to its users (at least in this thread), the word “bastard” is OK because it’s archaic, and no one actually uses it for its original meaning. So wait long enough, and “cocksucker” will become archaic too, and no one will care any more. That logic works, right? Put me in the “never heard ‘cocksucker’ as anything other than a general insult” category. And I’m a bastard, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/105 "2002-07-17T15:28:55Z")
What a way to start my day, pouring my coffee, sparking up a fag, and then reading this entire thread. Now I’m on my second cup of coffee and about to spark another fag. “Cocksucker” - I can appreciate everyone’s view on the word, I guess it depends on how you interpret it as to whether it is a slam on homosexual persons or as a general insult. I have used the word myself in reference to inanimate objects or usually in response to self inflicted injuries like crushing my thumb with a roofing hammer. I don’t know why I use it under these circumstances because sucking cock is generally a pretty good thing. Most of us would agree on that I think. Now Esprix, you are as guilty of mis-using the language as anyone when you say something like _“Ah, yes - gleefully continuing to insult people because they say they’re insulted. That’s mighty white of ya”_ “Mighty white of ya” is an extremely offensive phrase around here because of it’s racist connotations. Attributing a behaviour to a certain group, whether that behaviour is good or bad, is clearly racist in origin. We’re all guilty and the PC police are going to come and take us away (ha ha ho ho hee hee). ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/106 "2002-07-17T15:37:31Z")
Esprix, I am quite sure, was using “mighty white” sarcastically, Feynn. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/107 "2002-07-17T15:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\*PS: Don’t you think using rape the way you did was insulting and demeaning to all those who have been really raped? I take offense. \*\* You are quite right, and I humbly apologize to all Fraggles who have suffered sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/108 "2002-07-17T15:53:37Z")
I don’t think **Feynn** can offer proper perspective if he makes a habit of immolating homosexuals with his morning coffee. I’ve heard them described as “flaming” before, but this is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/109 "2002-07-17T16:50:07Z")
Beeblebrox - There’s no problem with my perspective when you consider that “sparking up a fag” means lighting a cigarette. Right now, I’m gagging for another fag… damn addiction! 🙂 I hope that you have a better perspective on the the use of the word “fag” now. I happen to love fags. Minty - I know that “Mighty white of ya” is usually offered sarcastically (as Esprix did so well) but I used it as another term/phrase which can be really offensive when you really think about it. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/110 "2002-07-17T17:20:58Z")
But I’m sure Esprix _did_ think about it, and employed it to demonstrate the untenable position of the person he was addressing, just as I sarcastically used homophobic language in the thread that inspired this thread as a means of pointing out the offensive nature of the OP’s chosen language. Comparing one person’s preferred offensive speech with other kinds of hate speech, even sarcastically, is an acceptable means of demonstrating the first person’s folly. That’s how I read it, anyway. YMMV, and I’ll leave it up to Esprix to comment if your reading does differ. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2002, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/111 "2002-07-17T18:21:50Z")
**Stinkpalm** used “cocksucker”, not as a derogatory slur on gay people, but as a generalized insult. It’s mildly innapproproate due to possible homophobic connotations. He was called on it. **Esprix** used “mighty white of you”, not as a tacitly racist remark, but as satire. **Feynn** pointed out that there really isn’t that much difference between the two, regardless if one is meant as satire and one is meant as a general insult. He may have a point. The use of the racist epithet “nigger”, regardless of how satirical, would likely offend a few people. We should endeavor not to offend others, but I think **Feynn’s** point was that maybe we need to reign in the PC language police and save them for when someone is _truly_ offensive. (such as if someone really had used the n-word). Sometimes the “I didn’t mean it _that_ way” defense should be accepted, as long as the original offense wasn’t egregious. Oh, and allow me to post a most likely unnecessary clarification: **Feynn** , I knew a “fag” is a cigarrette - I was just making a lame joke (I make a lot of 'em), just be thankfull I left out the Joan of Arc imagery. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/112 "2002-07-18T00:22:28Z")
Why is it so hard to make these people understand that words like “cocksucker” are considered insults BECAUSE they are associated with homosexuality? And that THAT is where the objection lies? If you consider “cocksucker” to be insulting, THEREFORE you consider the state of being a homosexual to be degrading and worthy of insult. What could be simpler? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/113 "2002-07-18T01:46:14Z")
Actually, I used it as sarcasm - I know perfectly well what a racist figure of speech it is. I figured a rolley smilie would have been over the top. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/114 "2002-07-18T04:07:44Z")
Language ain’t that simple, **lissener**. An equal case can be made that “cock-sucker” is insulting, not because of sexual preference, but because the word itself is sexually explicit. “Fucker” and “Ass-munch” are both sexually explicit insults, yet have nothing to do with homosexuality. “Cock-sucker” probably has a bit more to do with sexual preference than these two, but the small difference is not worth three pages of moral outrage. **Stinkpalm** did not say “faggot”. Too much emphasis on this type of pedantic shit distracts from _real_ problems and may likely cause the middle ground to discount your arguments as oversensitive when a real problem arises. Don’t cry wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/115 "2002-07-18T10:26:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*Why is it so hard to make these people understand that words like “cocksucker” are considered insults BECAUSE they are associated with homosexuality? And that THAT is where the objection lies? > > If you consider “cocksucker” to be insulting, THEREFORE you consider the state of being a homosexual to be degrading and worthy of insult. What could be simpler? \*\* This seems like a hell of a leap here. Homosexuals haven’t roped of the sole rights of sucking cock. I bet there are just as many girls who suck cock as guys, if not more. I was not referring to cocks, sucking them, straight or homosexual in my OP. Many people could see that immediatley. Yeah some people find it insulting towards homosexuals on this board which is why I am not going to use it on this board anymore. Someone answer a question for me though. What about using the word “blows” to describe something negative? “This job blows” “This socket set blows goats”. Are these also homosexual slurs? “blows” is very similar to cocksucke is it not? Describes the same act. Gays blow each other. But girls blow guys too. Should we all stop using "blows"as a negative descriptor? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/116 "2002-07-18T13:40:27Z")
Yeah, lissener, language always means exactly what it says. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/117 "2002-07-18T13:41:05Z")
So, setting aside the c-word for a moment, how do you explain your use of “fuck you up the ass!” as anything other than homophobic? Once again, is that just something that sounds like you have a negative fixation on homosexual sex acts, but in reality you’re just innocently using both references to gay sex acts as generic “really bad things”? BTW, “cocksucker” is almost invariably emplayed as an insult against a man. (Yes, women perform the act too. But if you do a google search on the word, I’m quite confident you’ll find the word is applied pretty much only to women in porn.) As an insult, it is exclusively male. Since that is the case, how is it that you are not insulting the target by reference to sexual orientation? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/118 "2002-07-18T13:46:47Z")
I am guessing you are talking to me minty? The whole “Fuck them up thier stupid asses” was in reference to the movie “Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back”. If you’ve seen the movie you will know exactly what scene I am talking about. Its very long and there is no missing it. What is your response to my question about the word “blows”? I am curious to see how you can twist everything around to make it ok to say “blows”. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/119 "2002-07-18T13:52:03Z")
I don’t think transexuals, or anyone else, should be subject to ridicule regardless of how many of them there are. I certainly don’t think transexuals should be subject to ridicule, harassment, assault, or discrimination based on their sexual identity. When it comes to these problems I take them seriously and I’ll stand behind the victim. I even thought it was a good thing when San Francisco included sexual reassignment surgery under their insurance plan. I apologize for my poor choice of words. Marc ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035/120 "2002-07-18T14:02:21Z")
You’re avoiding the question. The mere fact that a phrase appears in a movie does not absolve it of homophobia. Indeed, you may recall that Kevin Smith got royally roasted by gay rights groups for using such language. And you, **Stinkpalm** , have no hope of ever achieving the overrated mediocrity of Kevin Smith. You’re just some dork on a message board who thinks it’s funny to repeat a movie character’s homophobic drivel and then deny that it’s mean to be homophobic at all. And the response to your inquiry is simple: “sucks” and “blows” are universally used without orientation-based animus. Your phrases are routinely employed to insult on the basis of sexual orientation. See the difference? Now answer my question, Stinkpalm: If using “cocksucker” as an insult has nothing to do with homosexuality, why is it employed exclusively against men? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-cocksucker-become-synonymous-with-homosexual/119035.md?page=7)