When did corporatists started?

I’m trying to understand the US government relationship with businesses to support monopoly. The US is a socialist country for the rich now. Every court case is toss out. Well even the EU is not best but way better than the US.

But the US is not a capitalism country not even close. It is socialist country and been like that for long time if well not worse now with all bailout money and middle class gone.

1% owns 40% of the US wealth.

The US got in this big mess and cannot seem to get out if it. Look at 2008 the government knew the big banks give loans to homeless and poor people knowing they cannot pay loan off and US government give them money to make profit and kicked the poor on the street.

Just like the car companies making expensive vehicles that use extensive gas usage that cost lots of money and people buying cheaper Asian vehicles after the 2008 recession.And had to give money to the US car companies.

Or look at covid lockdowns hurting small and medium businesses by closing them and not giving them money yet big businesses and tech companies never closed

Amazon and Tesla have more money now than ever.

The conservatives hate social media so much and Trump hated them they could not even break them up or pass a law they cannot use censorship.

Is it posable there is deep state controlling government? Trump talked about it and saying there is a deep state with conservative spin on it.

Even Bernie Sanders seem very different this year like some one got to him and other far left liberals in government now seem very different now.

Could there be deep state controlling government?

No, there couldn’t.

No. Monied interests control government. The US is not a socialist society, but a capitalist one; government therefore serves the interests of capital first of all.

And it was ever thus. Jillwood seems to labour under the misapprehension that there was a time in the US when this was not so.

No. Monied interests control government. government therefore serves the interests of capital first of all.

Can you elaborate on this and explain this better?

I think government is under threat of being captured by any powerful, influential, well organized organization. Generally this can be the military or some oligarchy of political and business leaders from what I’ve seen. I don’t believe corporations were that powerful, influential or well organized in the US until the middle of the 20th century though. the US used to have a lot more small businesses that were independent of each other while now we have a small number of nationwide businesses that are in every community.

Also it depends on the country. one of Putins first moves when taking power was breaking the oligarchs who controlled Russia. Also private interests do not control China either. I wouldn’t call either one a role model but it depends on the nation whether private business controls the government.

I’m not sure if it’ll ever get better really. Even though small donors are raising as much money as large donors, its easier to get 10 checks for 10 million each from big donors than 1 million checks for $100 each from small donors.

The programs promoted under FDR would be hard to pass today due to opposition by moneyed interest. Passing medicare and medicaid like LBJ wouldn’t happen either. The hospital industry, AMA, pharma, medical device suppliers and insurance industry would fight it tooth and nail.

Wrong century. The first really large corporations were the rail lines in the 19th century. Starting about 1870, there was a big consolidation among rail lines by financiers who became known as robber barons. Other industries also consolidated in that era although somewhat later. The oil industry, for example (does the name John D. Rockefeller ring a bell?) Bribery of government officials by robber barons was common in that era, although only occasionally was caught.

Well I have been spending a lot of time looking at wikipedia on the anti trust laws and it seems the US has had long history of monopoly problems in the past.

They talk about lots of monopolies like the oil company, telephone company, railroad company and steel company.

I’m not sure if the oil company and railroad company where just buying up other companies or they set the price that forced other companies to go for bankruptcy.

The same thing with the steel company not sure if they where just buying up other companies or they set the price that forced other companies to go for bankruptcy.

Base on reading this below.

The oil industry was prone to what is called a natural monopoly because of the rarity of the products it produced. John D. Rockefeller, the founder and chairman of Standard Oil, and his partners took advantage of both the rarity of oil and the revenue produced from it to set up a monopoly without the help of the banks.

I think part of the problem is liberal vs conservative seem to have very different meaning in the US than other first world countries like the UK or Canada.

Where conservative support welfare and free state run healthcare and gun laws where in the US this is socialism that is very different than other first world countries where this not socialism.

Frequently, a combination of those. Force a company to bankruptcy and then buy it at a fire-sale price.

At the very least, large corporations mean jobs and tax revenue. Why do you think states and cities bend over backwards with tax breaks and infrastructure upgrades to attract big corporate headquarters.

And when you start getting into companies that are “too big to fail”, or have a potential strategic or national security component to it, the government takes an interest in the success of those companies.

Also the huge amount of capital required to drill, refine, and produce oil. It’s a very infrastructure-intensive industry so tends to be subject to economies of scale.

I didn’t get the same thoughts on this as other posters. I have felt that in my lifetime that the companies have taken total control of the U.S.govt. I think two things have caused it. The bad economy of the 80’s and the rise of the attitude that we need to cater to business to have a good economy.
Second was the law that restricted how much bribe money (campaign contributions) could go directly to politicians individually. That law allowed unlimited amounts to political parties and PACs. This went into effect in the late 80’s I think and was in affect until 2010 or so when it was at least partially declared unconstitutional. Prior to this the logistics of bribing congress was staggering. 250-300 individual bribes. Now one bribe to the party or a PAC and your law gets passed. Not certain on my dates on this but it is also why we saw the rise of the hard divide between the parties. Prior to this politicians identified with a party but weren’t particularly beholden to them for their money. It took time because the established politicians had the incumbent advantage and did not have to toe the party line. WV’s senator Byrd was one of the last of the old guard to die and since then we have had nearly strict voting along party lines because the pols are dependent on the party money to get reelected.

I’m interested in learning more. Do you have cites for those claims?

Oh, please. Corporations started taking over government in the last quarter of the 19th century when the railroad industry started generating more money than anybody had ever imagined. Congress was wholly-owned by corporations in the late 19th and early 20th century. Mark Hanna got McKinley elected president to cater to corporations. Democrats weren’t innocent but the Republican Party was especially the creature of the wealthy and the corporations (at the state as well as the federal level), one reason why the Peoples and the Populist Parties gained traction by representing the farmers and workers. Not that it did them any good. The Supreme Court totally ignored the 1893 Antitrust Act. Roosevelt was considered, by Hanna, to be a “madman” mostly because he wanted to apply antitrust. (Taft actually did much more but doesn’t get the credit.) Even so, it took another generation before the Supreme Court stopped awarding victories to corporations in virtually every case.

Nothing about today’s situations is new. Corporations had far - far - more power at the turn of the 20th century than they ever had again. More forces work against corporations now than did from 1850 on.

Well it does not really say it is saying.

One of the better-known trusts was the Standard Oil Company; John D. Rockefeller in the 1870s and 1880s had used economic threats against competitors and secret rebate deals with railroads to build what was called a monopoly in the oil business, though some minor competitors remained in business. In 1911 the Supreme Court agreed that in recent years (1900–1904) Standard had violated the Sherman Act (see *[Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey v. United States]

(Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey v. United States - Wikipedia)* ). It broke the monopoly into three dozen separate companies that competed with one another, including Standard Oil of New Jersey (later known as Exxon and now ExxonMobil),

Standard Oilof Indiana (Amoco), Standard Oil Company of New York (Mobil, again, later merged with Exxon to form ExxonMobil), of California ([Chevron]

(Chevron Corporation - Wikipedia)), Cleveland-based SOHIO - the parent of the trust, and so on. In approving the breakup the Supreme Court added the “rule of reason”: not all big companies, and not all monopolies, are evil; and the courts (not the executive branch) are to make that decision. To be harmful, a trust had to somehow damage the economic environment of its competitors.[ c

It kinda sounds like they where just buying up all the other oil companies to they had a monopoly.

So there may been only one or two oil companies back in that time and the same with railroad companies.

If that is what was going on they where buying up all the competition to they have a monopoly.

No, but prob find by googling. Working from memory so my dates may not be accurate.

That’s not how it works. You made the claim, it’s up to you provide a cite. “Just google it” doesn’t work.

If you want to know more you will google it.

Nah, that’s how this message board works.