# When did "couldn't care less" become "could care less"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2002, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358 "2002-10-22T10:31:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/1 "2002-10-22T10:31:30Z")
“I could care less” is something I’ve noticed some US citizens saying (notably Pres. Bush yesterday on Iraq). To me “couldn’t care less” has logic in context: it means “it would be impossible for me to have less concern for this matter”. Thus: this matter is of the utmost triviality to me. “Could care less” to me indicates that it _would_ be possible for the speaker to find things about which s/he was less concerned. I.e. this matter is not as trivial as other things are. Why the change towards illogicality? Is there a meaning I have missed? How long has this trend been growing? BTW, I could care less about your answers. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/2 "2002-10-22T10:34:33Z")
I asked this question a while back; I think the consensus was that the speaker is saying: “I _could_ care less if I tried, but that would take effort on my part and you’re not worth it” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/3 "2002-10-22T10:36:42Z")
So it’s sarcastic, in a way? BTW I’m not claiming that we English always use logical phrases, either. Try “cheap at half the price” for example. How did that one get perverted from “cheap at twice the price”? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/4 "2002-10-22T10:39:01Z")
I always figured it’s a straight British English/American English split. In England, “couldn’t care less” is a common phrase (and attitude :rolleyes: ), and I’ve never heard “could care less” spoken by a British speaker. (But then, being Irish, you knew that. Just clarifying for others…) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/5 "2002-10-22T10:40:57Z")
> [@](#): > > (But then, being Irish, you knew that. Just clarifying for others…) Ah, missed the second part of your “location” info. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/6 "2002-10-22T10:42:36Z")
I have heard Americans use the “couldn’t” phrase though. Clarifications: I’m English. Also, the Irish speak Hiberno-English, not British English. ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/7 "2002-10-22T10:49:48Z")
I got the impression that it’s just a lazy corruption, rather than an attempt to alter the meaning of the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/8 "2002-10-22T11:21:25Z")
April, 1971. Yeah, I’m being facetious, but I began hearing it around that time. (Early 70s, not that month and year.) I have always figured that it started the way **Mangetout** speculated and continued the way **Andy** noted. That is, the very first uses were quite clearly sarcastic in nature, but the phrase was heard and repeated by people who were not paying attention to the sarcasm and it has now begun to push the actual phrase out of use. (_Could **n’t** _ is still in common use in the U.S., particularly among the literate; it simply has a lot of competition from its younger sibling.) ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/9 "2002-10-22T11:24:40Z")
It didn’t. Many people have just heard wrong and started saying wrong. IMHO, not enough people are saying it wrong, and too many people are still saying it correctly, for the incorrect usage to be consider correct. Hopefully we can stamp out this ignorance before it gets further widespread and becomes accepted usage. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/10 "2002-10-22T12:05:55Z")
I think the fight could be lost already. Google comes up with 79,700 hits for “couldn’t care less” and 85,100 for “could care less” (with the quotes around them to find only the exact phrases). So, it’s close, but the “correct” forms seems to be slightly in the minority. (Although admittedly a lot of the hits for “could care less” seem to be sites pointing out that it’s wrong!) ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/11 "2002-10-22T12:12:43Z")
That sucks. This search: **+“couldn’t care less” +“could care less”** gives 1,660 hits. Assuming all of those are Fighters of Ignorance®, we are still in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/12 "2002-10-22T12:40:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*BTW I’m not claiming that we English always use logical phrases, either. Try “cheap at half the price” for example. How did that one get perverted from “cheap at twice the price”? \*\* I would have thought the original phase was _“cheap at twice the price”_ to indicate you thought the purchase was a bargain. The _“cheap at half the price”_, to me, was a semi-sarcastic way of saying the new purchase was far too expensive, and you knew you were being ripped off. I think they both still stand as totally individual responses dependant on situation and intended meaning. The latter merely relates, or derives, from the original, but wouldn’t (to my understanding) ever be used by someone in place of the original. ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/13 "2002-10-22T12:59:28Z")
But _cheap at half the price_ is commonly used to mean a bargain over here. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/14 "2002-10-22T13:12:17Z")
So is “cheap at twice the price”. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/15 "2002-10-22T13:27:23Z")
Ok, it’ll be for the best if I shut up then. 😉 I have never once heard anyone say _“cheap at half the price”_ to mean something was a bargain. I have only heard it used as a minor complaint when paying over the odds for something. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/16 "2002-10-22T13:38:34Z")
IIRC, I\in the musical “Oliver!” the song “Who Will Buy?” uses the phrase “cheap at half the price” to mean that something is a good value. It was written by a Brit, Lionel Bart, in the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/17 "2002-10-22T13:56:56Z")
I’ve never quite understood the origins of “cheap at half the price”. It could be construed either as “(It would be) cheap at half the price” – in which case, duh, of course it would! – or “It’s half the usual price, and therefore cheap” The second meaning seems to make more sense, but I’ve never come across that as a derivation, and the intonation people usually use suggests that that’s not the way that mean it. Of course, “cheap at twice the price” only makes sense as “(It would still be) cheap at twice the price”. ---
**Author:** ![Bindlestiff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bindlestiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bindlestiff)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/18 "2002-10-22T14:16:14Z")
In the late '60s I heard people replace “I couldn’t care less” with “I could care less?”. Both of these have logical validity. Then Americans (as is their wont) failed to understand the inflection that labeled the latter version as a question and mindlessly blurted out the words assuming the words meant what the context suggested they should mean. I’ve only heard “cheap at half the price” used as a derisive comment about the high price. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/19 "2002-10-22T14:26:12Z")
I’ll vote for a misunderstanding of the original phrase, coupled with an inability to think about what’s being said. But it’s a mute point\* now, as the new phrase has settled inexorably into our cultural mindset. - Rick - One of my pet peeve distorted phrases . 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358/20 "2002-10-22T14:53:40Z")
The way “I could care less” is usually inflected has always made sense to me as a form of sarcasm, and I’ve always taken it that way in print, too. The speaker is admitting the possibility of some less interesting topic, but emphasizing the fact that it would have to be something like the minutes of the annual meeting of the national association of doorknob salesmen. Consequently, by any reasonable scale, the topic at hand is worthy of dismissal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-couldnt-care-less-become-could-care-less/133358.md?page=2)