# When did ethnic food items become racial slurs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701 "2012-08-16T19:43:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/41 "2012-08-16T23:59:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > We have friends whose last name is Boehner (or something close to that spelling). It is pronounce “Beaner” more or less. The wife is of Mexican descent. Why not pronounce it “Bayner”, like the Speaker of the House does? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/42 "2012-08-17T00:06:27Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > …Boardwalk Empire (set at the time Prohibition started) features the racial slur “garlic eaters.” While I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the term, I’d have no reason to doubt it… Mr. Potter, the evil land baron in _It’s A Wonderful Life_, called the poor immigrants in town “garlic eaters.” This was filmed in 1946, so it’s been around awhile. And I can back up **Colibri** : I’ve heard \*Mulignan \*many times while growing up in an Italian family in the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/43 "2012-08-17T02:11:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I prefer to just use the word _insult_ myself. > > Words have meaning. True, they have multiple meanings more often than not, but it’s possible to add on so many usages that the word loses usefulness. I agree, I just don’t agree that these phrases are outside the realm of racism or at least insult based on race. > [@](#): > > Oreo isn’t the same sort of slur as nigger, kike, honkey, and so forth, because it’s not based on an immutable, inherent aspect of a person’s identity; it’s all about behavior. Sure it is, it is based on the immutable fact that you’re black and to some that means you should behave in a certain way. But like I said above, no they’re not nearly so bad as kike, nigger, and so forth. But it isn’t all that important so we don’t need to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/44 "2012-08-17T02:39:37Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > “Kraut.” > > In high school, my friend Jon and I, being of German descent in a heavily German and Irish-settled area, tried to find the Irish equivalent of “Kraut.” We settled on “Potato.” That’s an old one. It was used for the Irish back in the 1800’s, during the potato famine. Often just ‘spuds’. Also cabbage or cabbagehead. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/45 "2012-08-17T10:37:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why not pronounce it “Bayner”, like the Speaker of the House does? I dunno. When people say Boner, he corrects them to Beaner. His name, I comply. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/46 "2012-08-17T11:05:49Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > Haven’t the French been “frogs” for quite a while? “Frogeaters”, actually, which originally was something the urbanised Parisians called the country yokels of Versailles. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/47 "2012-08-17T11:48:46Z")
A few years back, someone brought donuts onto our trading floor. One guy grabbed a donut with sprinkles on it, and from then on he has been known as “Sprinkles” (at least on the trading floor, where the corporate rules lighten up a little). ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/48 "2012-08-18T00:27:42Z")
My guess is that the first time this happened was the first time two cultures with different foods intermixed. It could even be pre-agricultural (more than 10K years ago). People have been xenophobic for a long time, and will continue to have an impulse to be. It’s up to us all to understand, recognize, and control those impulses in ourselves, and discourage them in others. Three interwebz will be awarded to whomever can post the oldest attributable example. So far, I think that’s **Giles**. I’m not sure I understand that post, though! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/49 "2012-08-18T07:34:31Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > My guess is that the first time this happened was the first time two cultures with different foods intermixed. It could even be pre-agricultural (more than 10K years ago). Only, it doesn’t happen in every culture. While I can think of many cases where a name of food is used as an euphemism or a derogatory term for something other than people, and while I’m evidently not a walking dictionary, I’m hitting a blank on foods used in Spain as an _ethnic_ slur. It’s one of the things I’ve had people ask me about: “where does this _frijolero_ thing come from?” “Well, beans are called _frijoles_ in many Latin American countries, and USAnians use beaner or frijolero as an insult on Hispanics, since frijoles are a Hispanic staple.” “Why? That’s silly! Do they call Chinese _arroceros_\*?” “It’s an insult, since when do insults have to make sense?” - _arrocero_: person who likes rice (arroz) a lot. No ethnic slur involved. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/50 "2012-08-19T15:36:22Z")
Funny, related anecdote: On _Mythbusters_ once, Grant and Tori were going to get into shark-infested waters, wearing protective gear, and see if panicked flailing was more likely to attract sharks vs. remaining calm and still. Once the boys realized they were going to be tossed into the ocean as shark bait, Tori looked at Grant and said “I hope they like sushi!” :eek::dubious:😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/51 "2012-08-20T16:44:41Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I agree, I just don’t agree that these phrases are outside the realm of racism or at least insult based on race. > > Sure it is, it is based on the immutable fact that you’re black and to some that means you should behave in a certain way. So what? People who call me an Oreo (which doesn’t actually happen that often, thanks to my size advantage) aren’t holding my _race_ against me. They’re holding my _behavior_ against me. Calling it racist contorts the term out of all meaning. It is almost as silly as Glenn Beck claiming that Barack Obama hates white people. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/52 "2012-08-20T19:26:36Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So what? > > People who call me an Oreo (which doesn’t actually happen that often, thanks to my size advantage) aren’t holding my _race_ against me. They’re holding my _behavior_ against me. Calling it racist contorts the term out of all meaning. It is almost as silly as Glenn Beck claiming that Barack Obama hates white people. I see your point here, but I don’t agree with it. I don’t think _racism_ means only “the belief that one ‘race’ is inherently superior or inferior to others,” as you claimed; I think it covers a broader range of meanings, and that it includes the type of attitude characterized by calling people “oreos.” I admit that I don’t have a clear and concise definition that clearly delineates what is and isn’t racism, but that’s the lexicographers’ problem, not mine. I just use words in the way that seems to me best, and the lexicographers can worry about distilling the myriad uses of a word into a short dictionary entry. More apropos to the discussion is the fact that I don’t think my usage of _racist_ to describe the term “oreo” and those who use it is at all idiosyncratic. I think _most_ people (or at least a lot of people) would describe that as racism. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/53 "2012-08-20T22:12:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So what? > > People who call me an Oreo (which doesn’t actually happen that often, thanks to my size advantage) aren’t holding my _race_ against me. They’re holding my _behavior_ against me. Calling it racist contorts the term out of all meaning. It is almost as silly as Glenn Beck claiming that Barack Obama hates white people. Like I said, we don’t have to agree. To me expecting someone to behave in a certain way because they are black or white or Asian is racist. There’s two parts: 1. They are criticizing your behavior. 2. They are saying that black people should inherently behave a certain way simply because they are black. #2 is pretty clearly racist to me. But again, just because I think many different things can be racist, does not mean I think they are all equally offensive. And we don’t have to agree on whether that stretches the words beyond all bounds. That is why the Oxford people have usage panels. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/54 "2012-08-20T22:33:05Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Like I said, we don’t have to agree. > > To me expecting someone to behave in a certain way because they are black or white or Asian is racist. > > There’s two parts: > > 1. They are criticizing your behavior. > 2. They are saying that black people should inherently behave a certain way simply because they are black. > > #2 is pretty clearly racist to me. > > But again, just because I think many different things can be racist, does not mean I think they are all equally offensive. And we don’t have to agree on whether that stretches the words beyond all bounds. That is why the Oxford people have usage panels. I believe men should behave a certain way simply because they are men. We shoudl support any children we happen to sire; we should refrain from striking our children and our wives; we should be faithful to our brothers. Does that make me sexist? I don’t know why I am feeling compelled to defend persons who annoy me, but black people who’ve called me an Oreo tend to be people who believe that there is a definite, discernable, systemic tension between the Caucasian power structure in this country and black people (which I agree with) and that certain modes of behavior, stereotypically white, represent at best a capitulation and at a worst a collaboration with that structure (which I disagree with). I find the latter belief vexing, but it’s not racist. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/55 "2012-08-20T23:48:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I believe men should behave a certain way simply because they are men. We shoudl support any children we happen to sire; we should refrain from striking our children and our wives; we should be faithful to our brothers. Does that make me sexist? > > I don’t know why I am feeling compelled to defend persons who annoy me, but black people who’ve called me an Oreo tend to be people who believe that there is a definite, discernable, systemic tension between the Caucasian power structure in this country and black people (which I agree with) and that certain modes of behavior, stereotypically white, represent at best a capitulation and at a worst a collaboration with that structure (which I disagree with). I find the latter belief vexing, but it’s not racist. Supporting children, not hitting, and being faithful seem like ways men _and women_ should behave. If you believed that there were different standards for men and women (beyond just applying similar standards to masculine and feminine roles, like specifying children _sired_ for men) then yes, you might well be sexist, though if anyone could come up with a hypothetical situation in which it _wouldn’t_ be sexist, it would be you! And except for the hypothetical part, that’s sort of what you’ve done here. Yes, you actually make a reasonably convincing case that the use of “oreo” you’ve described _isn’t_ racist. And since you almost certainly have more experience with people using the word than I do, I’m inclined to defer to you here. Nevertheless, _my_ thinking someone who uses the word “oreo” is racist isn’t stretching the meaning of _racism_ out of sense, it’s just disagreeing (perhaps ignorantly) about the character of the people who use the term. And even if someone who agreed with your understanding decided that it _was_ racist, I don’t think it they’d be using the word unreasonably. In other words, you’re (mostly right but still partly) wrong! ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/56 "2012-08-21T01:56:47Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I believe men should behave a certain way simply because they are men. We shoudl support any children we happen to sire; we should refrain from striking our children and our wives; we should be faithful to our brothers. Does that make me sexist? If you believe that should only be done because someone has a Y chromosome, then yes, it likely is. Personally, I think it should be done because you’re a person. If you think that someone should regurlarly eat chitlins because they’re black and that a failure to do so is a rejection of being black, then yes, I think that’s racist. Not the most horrible form it can take, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Anaglyph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anaglyph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaglyph)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/57 "2012-08-21T09:59:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > We have friends whose last name is Boehner (or something close to that spelling). It is pronounce “Beaner” more or less. The wife is of Mexican descent. > > We ran into her at a fairground when my son was 12. My gf was happy/ excited to see her and screamed, “hey! beaner!!” (which is what we all call her). My son was embarrassed. Boehner is an alternative spelling of Böhner, which is a german name: Last name origins & meanings: North German (Böhner): occupational name from an agent derivative of Middle Low German bönen ‘to board’, ‘to lay a floor’ North German (Böhner): topographic name for someone who lived in a loft, a variant of Boehne + the suffix -er denoting an inhabitant. Read more on FamilyEducation: [http://genealogy.familyeducation.com/surname-origin/boehner#ixzz24Anenr3F](http://genealogy.familyeducation.com/surname-origin/boehner#ixzz24Anenr3F) ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/58 "2012-08-21T13:01:13Z")
> [@Jaledin](#): > > Re watermelon. I don’t know if “Watermelon Man” is a slur or just a groovy tune. What about “coon”? Is that from rural people – black and white, but whites conveniently forgotten – eating road meat? > > I heard the “eggplant” and “cantaloupe” exchange from … _True Romance_ was improvised by Hopper and Walken. Is eggplant a real term for southern Italians? I’m betting cantaloupe was just supposed to be funny. > > Wait – white people. “White bread,” “mayonnaise.” I guess “milquetoast” has been around for a long time in its current meaning as roughly “pantywaist” or “sap” or whatever. Caspar Milquetoast: > **[Caspar Milquetoast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Milquetoast)** > > Caspar Milquetoast is a fictional character created by H. T. Webster for his comic strip The Timid Soul. Webster described Caspar Milquetoast as "the man who speaks softly and gets hit with a big stick". The character's name is derived from a bland and fairly inoffensive food, milk toast, which, light and easy to digest, is an appropriate food for someone with a weak or "nervous" stomach. > In 1912, Webster drew a daily panel for the New-York Tribune, under a variety of titles—Our Boyhood Ambition... ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/59 "2012-08-21T19:37:27Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > If you believe that should only be done because someone has a Y chromosome, then yes, it likely is. Personally, I think it should be done because you’re a person. It’s not that I don’t believe women shouldn’t be held to the same standards as those I hold for men in general; it’s that I’m much more likely to be judgmental about a man misbehaving in those ways than about a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701/60 "2012-08-21T19:39:07Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Supporting children, not hitting, and being faithful seem like ways men _and women_ should behave. If you believed that there were different standards for men and women (beyond just applying similar standards to masculine and feminine roles, like specifying children _sired_ for men) then yes, you might well be sexist, though if anyone could come up with a hypothetical situation in which it _wouldn’t_ be sexist, it would be you! > > And except for the hypothetical part, that’s sort of what you’ve done here. Yes, you actually make a reasonably convincing case that the use of “oreo” you’ve described _isn’t_ racist. And since you almost certainly have more experience with people using the word than I do, I’m inclined to defer to you here. > > Nevertheless, _my_ thinking someone who uses the word “oreo” is racist isn’t stretching the meaning of _racism_ out of sense, it’s just disagreeing (perhaps ignorantly) about the character of the people who use the term. And even if someone who agreed with your understanding decided that it _was_ racist, I don’t think it they’d be using the word unreasonably. > > In other words, you’re (mostly right but still partly) wrong! You wouldn’t say that if we were in the same room, but that’s only because I’m a large short-tempered black man inclined by temperament to bully others through physical intimidation. Ghetto, in other words. My cite is the free cup of coffee I’m drinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ethnic-food-items-become-racial-slurs/631701.md?page=2)