# When did Europeans stop squatting, and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724 "2010-06-18T23:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/21 "2010-06-19T12:18:12Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > What makes you think we don’t squat when we don’t have chairs or stools? I’ve never seen a Westerner squat like an Asian in my entire life. Westerners do squat, but typically not with flat feet, and it isn’t a particular comfortable position. The Asian squat is somewhere between standing and sitting in comfort. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/22 "2010-06-19T12:46:58Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’ve never seen a Westerner squat like an Asian in my entire life. Westerners do squat, but typically not with flat feet, and it isn’t a particular comfortable position. The Asian squat is somewhere between standing and sitting in comfort. westerner, and I can squat with flat feet no problems, and I did on occasion when traveling and there was nothing else available. Also saw other westerners doing the same in India when traveling. Reason you don’t see it in western countries, there’s never a need for it, see my post above. ---
**Author:** ![lemac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@lemac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lemac)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/23 "2010-06-19T13:16:45Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Because we are never commonly in a situation where we wait for long periods of time and chairs or benches aren’t available. > > Basest on my own travels in India and SE Asia, the local people only squat when nothing else is available. At bus stations or train stations in India / SE Asia they don’t provide many (or sometimes any at all) chairs or benches and theres often long long delays. Still people will sit on their own luggage in preference to squatting. It’s only the poorest that you see squatting on their heels, the slightly more well off will wait in restaurants or cafes which have seating provided. I see people sitting on the ground every day at train stations, either with their legs crossed or with their backs against an object, but I’ve never seen anyone squat. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/24 "2010-06-19T13:19:44Z")
It’s also worth pointing out that Asians sit on the floor cross legged in their homes. Furniture is not a big priority in their lives. Heck, most of my relatives couldn’t even get up & down from the floor unassisted by age 60. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/25 "2010-06-19T14:35:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s also worth pointing out that Asians sit on the floor cross legged in their homes. Furniture is not a big priority in their lives. > . I rarely see people sitting on the floor in China. Actually, I cannot remember ever seeing them sitting on the floor. But, “never say never”. The Chinese that I have seen typically either sit in chairs or squat. Every home I have visited in China has plenty of chairs and other furniture. I also spent several years in the Philippines. Many people squatting. Rarely , if ever, sitting on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/26 "2010-06-19T14:43:30Z")
I physically cannot squat with flat feet, my heels always come up. I have noticed that wetsren children manage the position with no trouble. I assume the tendons shorten or something due to lack of practice in most adults. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/27 "2010-06-19T14:50:22Z")
Sorry, I should have said Japanese sit on the floor. Not necessarily all Asians. They have special mats to sit on. Here’s a guide to proper Japanese sitting. Men and Women sit differently in the casual position. > **[Sitting techniques and rules](https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2006.html)** > > Beginner's guide to sitting techniques and rules in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/28 "2010-06-19T14:54:38Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > westerner, and I can squat with flat feet no problems, and I did on occasion when traveling and there was nothing else available. Also saw other westerners doing the same in India when traveling. Reason you don’t see it in western countries, there’s never a need for it, see my post above. Many, perhaps most, westerners can’t squat flat-footed. You have to acquire the flexibility to do so, and I suspect that’s something you do early in life or not at all. I remember as a school-child noticing that one of my classmates could squat flat-footed, but she had taken ballet lessons for many years. None of the rest of us could squat that way. If you are able to do the Asian squat, consider yourself flexible and fortunate. I’ll be surprised if more than one American in ten over the age of twelve can do so. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/29 "2010-06-19T15:09:09Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’ve never seen a Westerner squat like an Asian in my entire life. But that’s not what the OP asked. > [@](#): > > Westerners do squat, but typically not with flat feet, and it isn’t a particular comfortable position. Really? I’ve got flat feet and I can squat with my feet fully on the ground just fine. But yes, I and most people I know normally squat with their heels slightly raised. And we’re fine for significant periods of time. White people can squat just fine. Doing it in a different manner does not make it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/30 "2010-06-19T15:14:51Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > 40,000 years is still thousands of years. Go to any museum or visit any website that displays tribal art, and you’ll invariably find things like [this](http://www.zyama.com/senufo/index.htm). The poster you were responding to was talking about Hunter Gatherers. The first two lines of your cite are: > [@](#): > > The Senufo number 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 and live in Côte d’Ivoire, Ghana, Burkina Faso, and the extreme south of Mali. They live principally off the fruits of agriculture and occasionally hunting. Agriculturalists are not Hunter Gatherers. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/31 "2010-06-19T15:25:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’ve never seen a Westerner squat like an Asian in my entire life. Westerners do squat, but typically not with flat feet, and it isn’t a particular comfortable position. The Asian squat is somewhere between standing and sitting in comfort. MOST (but not all) Westerners can’t squat flat footed because, in addition to lacking the flexibility in our Achilles tendons due to wearing shoes with heels on them, our bones are the wrong shape. When you squat flat footed (as all children can do) and keep that up, the bones in your ankle and feet wear differently, in patterns that support squatting with ease as an adult. Westerners can certainly learn to squat flat footed. Start by kicking off your shoes and getting your Achilles tendon and gastrocnemius muscles lengthened with stretching exercises. Your feet bones will wear and compress to the right shape in time. [http://www.toilet-related-ailments.com/squatting-facets.html](http://www.toilet-related-ailments.com/squatting-facets.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gruntled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/34f0e0/32.png) [@Gruntled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gruntled)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/32 "2010-06-19T16:44:16Z")
> [@simple\_homer](#): > > In my travels around Asia I have seen many people squatting. > They squat with their feet flat on the floor/ground. > > I am not able to squat with my feet flat. > > I think it is a valid question. I have seen many people squatting everywhere in Asia. Most Americans could not squat like that even if they wanted to, due to obesity. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/33 "2010-06-19T16:50:15Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I thought this thread would would be about _toilet habits_. :o Yeah, me too. Figured the answer’d be, “When the stool toilet was invented”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/34 "2010-06-19T21:44:38Z")
Hmm. Sorry to seem like a pest, but I must say I don’t find “because they didn’t squat as children, and they’ve had no practice” very satisfying. I don’t speak any languages besides English, and I could certainly say that the reason I don’t is that I didn’t do it as a child and I haven’t had any practice— but that doesn’t strike me as a very good answer to the question, “How did English become the native language of the US?” The fact that we didn’t do it as kids strikes me as just a slightly different way of saying that, indeed, we don’t do it, which is part of the question. The answer, I suppose, may be just be the unsatisfying “one of those cultural things that’s lost in the mists of time.” But it does seem as though the squat must have become taboo, or a sign of being low-class, or something, at some point in European culture—maybe early Christianity wasn’t able to deal with the fact that it’s the standard posture for pooping? Or maybe it _is_ something organic having to do with a slight physiognomical (ITAW?) differences, or diet or something, though to me that sounds unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/35 "2010-06-19T21:49:38Z")
Thank goodness it was. Ever tried using an elevated Japanese toilet? :eek: Trying stepping up on a platform, squatting and doing your business. A westerner is lucky if they don’t fall face first in the thing. [![](https://japanisanisland.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/japanese-toilet2.jpg) ](https://japanisanisland.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/japanese-toilet2.jpg) > **[Japanese Toilets](https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2003.html)** > > How to use a Japanese toilet. > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Yeah, me too. Figured the answer’d be, “When the stool toilet was invented”. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/36 "2010-06-19T23:31:44Z")
> [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](#): > > Hmm. Sorry to seem like a pest, but I must say I don’t find “because they didn’t squat as children, and they’ve had no practice” very satisfying. Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was answering the “why don’t I see Westerners squatting today”, not “why did squatting die out in the West?” or “Why is the Western squat different than the Asian squat?” Two different questions, and I have no idea why we stopped squatting as a culture, but I do know why most of us don’t squat as individuals…because we don’t squat as a culture, and our bones develop differently as a result. Certainly, if squatting still existed routinely in our culture, we would all be able to squat as adults. There’s nothing genetically different about our bones, only the facets are different because we use them differently. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/37 "2010-06-19T23:54:44Z")
Until my joints got fucked over with arthritis and other issues, I could asian squat with ease, even while obese. Oddly enough, my ankles are the only joint below the waist that isn’t hosed.:smack: Actually, I have spent most of my 49 years of life being mildly uncomfortable sitting in chairs and on sofas ‘normally’ because I prefer to sit with my feet tucked up or crosslegged. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/38 "2010-06-20T05:34:50Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Until my joints got fucked over with arthritis and other issues, I could asian squat with ease, even while obese. Oddly enough, my ankles are the only joint below the waist that isn’t hosed.:smack: Yeah, I’m a bit surprised to find out that a flat-footed squat is difficult for so many people. I never really thought about it before, but I assumed everyone could do it. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/39 "2010-06-20T05:57:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, I’m a bit surprised to find out that a flat-footed squat is difficult for so many people. I never really thought about it before, but I assumed everyone could do it. I can’t do it. Wish I could. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724/40 "2010-06-20T05:59:59Z")
I always figured it’s because the climate in most of Europe is cold and damp, a strong incentive to build chairs to keep up off the ground. Oh yeah, they had plenty of wood too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-europeans-stop-squatting-and-why/543724.md?page=3)