# when did friendship get so difficult? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 11, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843 "2003-07-11T22:54:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/1 "2003-07-11T22:54:34Z")
Why, oh why, do things have to get any more complicated than they were in third grade? Back then, you could go up to someone and ask them to be your best friend. You could also go up to someone and say, “I don’t want to be friends with you anymore.” Simple, to the point, generally effective. But how times have changed. I have Friend A, whom I have known for about a dozen years. At one point, we were quite close. Now, not so much. I find her draining and needy a good portion of the time, but every once in a while, we do really connect. Is that enough, though? I really don’t even know what keeps me in this friendship, except that having the “I don’t like you anymore” discussion feels exhausting. Sometimes I have felt that it would be more honest to have the discussion and move on, but I’m kinda wimpy that way. Then there is Friend B. More like Acquaintance B. This is someone I work with once a week. We get along really well, tell a lot of jokes, have started sharing personal facts, etc. But I can’t bring myself to ask her to do something outside of work without feeling like I’m asking her on a date. (For the record, I’m not romantically interested in her). Do other people find adult friendships so hard to navigate? Comments, advice? ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/2 "2003-07-11T23:02:06Z")
I don’t think you need to “break it off” with friends the same way you do with relationships. Just avoid being with them (if that’s what you want) and eventually you’ll drift apart. Friendships are not supposed to be messy and difficult in this way. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/3 "2003-07-11T23:41:26Z")
Friendship has become a whole lot more difficult ever since **T** he **C** onspiracy of **S** ilence[sup]©[/sup] began. Being friends used to revolve around a few very simple and common traits. Honesty, integrity and mutual regard. As the importance of consistent and coherent personal philosophy began to erode, so did all of the aforementioned virtues. The once crucial reality checks that friends could be relied upon to provide, vanished into a miasma of nebulous stances and equivocal statements. Modern society has sought out unchallenging pursuits for so long that people no longer hold integrity in high esteem. A marked preference for sniping and negativism has replaced what used to be encouragement and constructive criticism. Moral turpitude and mental laziness have deemed it much simpler to engage in petty carping and underhandedness than to endure the rigors of achievement and excellence. To this end, people now take pride in their flaws, seeing them as a badge of humanity. The open sores of their imperfection are worn as medals of honor. They proclaim how the ideal is unattainable and therefore not worthy of pursuit. More than anything, they no longer deem it important to discuss with others how to go about improving themselves. This is the conspiracy of thundering silence. There seems to be a tacit agreement that no one should mention each other’s problems or shortcomings. Where there was once genuine concern for the well being of others, there now reigns callous disregard. The sophomoric practice of cutting down supposed friends has migrated up through numerous age levels as gossip mongering and dishing the dirt. As so it is that friendship has become outmoded in a world of petty sniping and insincere criticism. The earnest caring and genuine compassion that fed friendship for all these untold centuries are viewed as weakness and vulnerability. Competition has become so ruthless that cooperation is merely treated as an opportunity to get over on anyone foolish enough to engage in it. Until people are willing to openly and honestly discuss each other’s problems and issues in a productive fashion, friendship will remain the elusive and complicated thing it has now become. ---
**Author:** ![TheFunkySpaceCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@TheFunkySpaceCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFunkySpaceCowboy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/4 "2003-07-12T02:51:55Z")
\*\* Zenster \*\*, Thank you. In reading over your post I couldn’t help but think of the people I consider to be close friends and what it is that sets them apart from mere aquaintences - in each and every case I can think of at least part of the answer is their ability to offer and accept (even invite) constructive critisism. The people I’m close to aren’t afraid of telling me their flaws and weaknesses and asking for help in overcoming them. Likewise I’m not afriad to show my weaknesses to them and to ask for their help in improving myself. This isn’t all that sets friends apart from aquaintences for sure, but it is an important part of what does seperate them. ---
**Author:** ![macabresoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@macabresoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/macabresoul)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/5 "2003-07-12T04:33:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > **As so it is that friendship has become outmoded in a world of petty sniping and insincere criticism. The earnest caring and genuine compassion that fed friendship for all these untold centuries are viewed as weakness and vulnerability.** Wow **Zenster** , you really do shine with zen like wisdom every once in a while. 🙂 Looking at what you quoted, you are so very right it hurts. I’ve always been a real genuine and caring person… sometimes people will take advantage, and I quickly get rid of them from my social circle. But when you find someone who has the same level of genuine good natured love that feeds a good friendship, it’s worth all the bad friendships you had to go through. I guess. But yea, your post hit home… Very well written. ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Star_to_the_Right)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/6 "2003-07-12T04:42:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aaslatten \* > \*\*I don’t think you need to “break it off” with friends the same way you do with relationships. Just avoid being with them (if that’s what you want) and eventually you’ll drift apart. Friendships are not supposed to be messy and difficult in this way. \*\* I have to respectfully disagree with you on that point. The one who wants out of the friendship may know why, but unless it’s a mutual thing, the other is going to be left confused and hurt and wondering what the hell they did wrong. Just tell them the truth. Yes, it’s hard. I know. But trust me- in the end it’ll be a lot better for that person to give them that closure than to just leave it up in the air. It can take a long time to get over those feelings of resentment, anger, sadness, etc. that come from being abandoned by a friend. Trust me on that. Any friendship can be hard to navigate, really. I’ve always heard that you’re lucky if you find one real, true friend in your entire life, and I believe it. Plus, in my experience anyway, life occasionally gives you a chance to learn who your real friends are, and sometimes the answer is not what you expect. Such is life. \*\* lorene,\*\* on friend a, well, see above for my take on that situation. on Friend B: Just suggest doing something sometime. That’s how a lot of friendships start. Is there a movie you both want to see? A restaurant you like? Just say “hey, we should see that/eat there/etc. sometime” and see how she reacts. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/7 "2003-07-12T05:24:53Z")
Society doens’t value friendship anymore. All of our popular stories are romances. That wasn’t always the case. When did it happen, exactly? Hopefully a litcrit type will drop in and tell us why _Roland_ or _Beowulf_ wouldn’t fly today, and when the shift occured. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/8 "2003-07-12T07:13:02Z")
Profound, **Zenster**! Sad, but profound. And I am always amazed at how many people enjoy gossip. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/9 "2003-07-12T13:46:58Z")
Thanks for the advice thus far. I do agree that, overall, it is far better to be honest with someone about why you feel their friendship no longer works for you. And with Friend A, I have tried to do just that, in the interest of seeing what was salvageable, but it enver quite orked. We went through a period of time during which she felt compelled to tell me in virtually every conversation how I had disappointed her (and I’m not saying she didn’t have some valid points, because maybe she did, but after a while, it does get hard to listen to), but the **one time** when I felt able to bring up some counterpoints, she asked me to go to therapy with her because I had traumatized her by being so critical, and she felt she could not possibly continue that conversation without her therapist there to be “an ally and a mediator.” I mostly brought her up as an example of how things can feel more difficult now than, say, when I was 8. I know I am the one who has to do something here—in both situations—and any lack of action leaves no one but myself to blame. ---
**Author:** ![kuraijo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@kuraijo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kuraijo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/10 "2003-07-12T17:20:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Second Star to the Right \* > \*\*I have to respectfully disagree with you on that point. The one who wants out of the friendship may know why, but unless it’s a mutual thing, the other is going to be left confused and hurt and wondering what the hell they did wrong. Just tell them the truth. Yes, it’s hard. I know. But trust me- in the end it’ll be a lot better for that person to give them that closure than to just leave it up in the air. It can take a long time to get over those feelings of resentment, anger, sadness, etc. that come from being abandoned by a friend. Trust me on that. > \*\* Not really. I was in that situation once. I was a real burden to my friend then - noone else would listen to me. He applied a little cold-shoulder treatment - not complete ignorance, just a little less warmth in conversations. I eventually got the idea. I don’t hate him though, in fact I feel really bad about bugging him for those few months. Friendship is about two-way communication. If it degrades to become a one-sided relationship you might as well break it off. ---
**Author:** ![kuraijo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@kuraijo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kuraijo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/11 "2003-07-12T17:25:18Z")
For your own sanity’s sake, lorene, wrap things up quickly. Don’t keep up the argument. It really isn’t salvageable. I mean, when you’re down with a problem you wouldn’t even think of bringing it up to her and asking for her opinion on the matter would you? One-way relationships just don’t work. If you actually do then there’s a chance your friendship can be saved, but otherwise the best thing to do would be to let it go quietly. She’ll find someone else whom she can rely on and who will rely on her. Don’t feel guilty about causing her so much trauma, or feel compelled to fix things for her. She’s traumatised only because she chose to let you traumatise her even though you didn’t intend to; hell, I can let my best friend traumatise me if I wanted to. She’ll sort things out, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/12 "2003-07-12T18:52:23Z")
**TheFunkySpaceCowboy** , **macabresoul** and **Violet** , thank you for appreciating my words. They are the product of a few painful decades worth of experience. I have had to _cleanse_ my address book more than a few times in my life. Like some of you, one of my most profound gauges of friendship is a shared desire for self improvement. To that end, when a person makes themselves vulnerable by mentioning their own shortcomings, it only evokes protective feelings in my own heart. I refuse to be the sort of scum who turns around and uses those selfsame vulnerabilities against whomever shared them with me. That sort of turncoat behavior is rampant these days and I find it repellent beyond words. Playing such deceitful games with me results in one single thing only. Namely, a “popping” sound of the air rushing in to fill the space my body once occupied, as I drop that person like a live grenade. I cannot imagine a life without integrity and honor. Those same elements demand that I be a loyal friend to the people I love. Concomitantly, I am obliged to boycott those who are shallow and ruthless. I have no time to waste upon those who would play such games. I have come to the unavoidable conclusion that people who play games are losers. In mind games and head trips, one person seeks to make another lose somehow. They seek to gain by someone else’s misfortune, just as these same types attempt to elevate themselves by degrading others. I will no longer countenance such evil. I firmly believe that life is most definitely _ **not** _ a zero-sum equation. One’s success need not come at the loss of another. I am determined to always seek out the win-win solution. It is usually there, waiting patiently, like all love does. People who play games are losers, pure and simple. I will have no association with such losers. Birds of a feather flock together and it is impossible to soar amongst such small minded low-intentioned creatures. Authentic and genuine friends are becoming harder to find, but it is always worth the search. The amity and synergy that real concern and caring brings to life is irreplaceable. To live without it is slow death and the game playing losers stand as stark testimony to that fact. Never forsake true friends, they are one of the most precious treasures life lays before us on our path through this world. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/13 "2003-07-12T20:36:54Z")
As time wears on, I find myself caring less and less about some types of people. I used to cling to and savor any friendship, or possibility thereof, but I’ve found myself less and less willing to waste time on people who do the following things: 1. Need constant reassurance and ego-soothing. 2. Constantly ask for advice, then don’t listen to it OR 3. Constantly ask for advice, then spend the entire time I give advice shooting down my solutions. 4. Just want to complain all the time. In my mind, complaining is different from venting. Complaining tends to mean you’re unwilling to do anything about the problem. 5. Require ME to do all the maitenance: calling, emailing, IMing, writing letters. 6. Are unable to carry or help along a conversation. E.G. “How’re you?” “Fine” “That’s good.” “Yea”. I have no urge to drag a conversation out of you. And I know I’ve been the same way and done ALL those things, so it does bother me, yes. And I may sound cruel but, eh, I’ve been worse. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/14 "2003-07-13T02:08:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \*\*\*…thank you for appreciating my words. They are the product of a few painful decades worth of experience. … when a person makes themselves vulnerable by mentioning their own shortcomings, it only evokes protective feelings in my own heart. I refuse to be the sort of scum who turns around and uses those selfsame vulnerabilities against whomever shared them with me. > > That sort of turncoat behavior is rampant these days and I find it repellent beyond words. … > > … In mind games and head trips, one person seeks to make another lose somehow. They seek to gain by someone else’s misfortune, just as these same types attempt to elevate themselves by degrading others. … > \*\* My perception: It seems that other people often want to hear that you are not doing so well. There is a lot of jealousy out there. OTOH, I have briefly met some people who seem genuine in every sense of the word, but geography has prevented me from cultivating those friendships in depth, with a few exceptions. I also agree with **GMRyujin** & some other posters. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/15 "2003-07-13T02:31:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by masonite \* > \*\*Society doens’t value friendship anymore. All of our popular stories are romances. That wasn’t always the case. When did it happen, exactly? Hopefully a litcrit type will drop in and tell us why _Roland_ or _Beowulf_ wouldn’t fly today, and when the shift occured. \*\* It’s not necessarily all like that, though. I know they’re not the best examples (since they’re marketed as kids movies), but films like **Finding Nemo** and **Monsters Inc.** totally play up platonic friendship as a valuable part of society. And **Finding Nemo** is the most popular movie of the summer so far. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/16 "2003-07-13T03:23:24Z")
OK, I just emailed potential **Friend B** and asked her if she wanted to have a drink or snack or coffee after work this week. I feel even more like I just asked someone out on a date. This had better turn out OK, since I still have to work with this woman… ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Star_to_the_Right)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/17 "2003-07-13T07:15:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kuraijo \* > \*\*Not really. I was in that situation once. I was a real burden to my friend then - noone else would listen to me. He applied a little cold-shoulder treatment - not complete ignorance, just a little less warmth in conversations. I eventually got the idea. I don’t hate him though, in fact I feel really bad about bugging him for those few months. > > Friendship is about two-way communication. If it degrades to become a one-sided relationship you might as well break it off. \*\* I suppose it just depends on the person and the situation. I personally would just rather know for sure, because I’m the type that will always wonder otherwise. Although, I recently went through an unpleasant breakup with a (now ex) friend, so anything I say on this subject at the present time may be a bit biased. Sorry 'bout that. ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Star_to_the_Right)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/18 "2003-07-13T07:19:37Z")
Oh, and good for you, \*\* lorene. \*\* Don’t worry about it seeming date-like, just relax! Let us know how it goes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-friendship-get-so-difficult/187843/19 "2003-07-13T12:16:36Z")
Plans on Weds after work. Yee! I feel better now.