# When did 'gay' come, almost exclusively, to mean homosexual? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184 "2010-02-01T01:17:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/21 "2010-02-01T06:10:33Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > At some other point later in time I also distinctly remember a rather conservative/religious friend of mine (and or his father) complaining that gays/somebody had coopted the word gay because at the very least local the TV stations were now broadcasting something more along the lines of “we will have a GRAND old time”.[ At the time, could you actually verify this to be true? In my quick lazy Googling, I can’t find any reference to the lyrics to the Flintstones theme song ever being changed. And it does sound like the sort of urban legend which could easily arise among those of a certain mindset from a “What’ll they do next?” rant eventually misinterpreted somewhere and warped into an unchecked “Look what they’ve done!” rant. ---
**Author:** ![MaceMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@MaceMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaceMan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/22 "2010-02-01T06:16:57Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Then in the 90s gay stopped meaning “homosexual” totally and moved into gay = lame In the early 80’s, I remember schoolchildren taunting each other with “you’re so gay,” or saying “that’s gay” to mean dumb or stupid. Believe me, the 5-7 year olds around me in school didn’t know what gay meant, although I did because I asked my Mom what it meant when all my acquaintances started taunting me with it. My standard response at the time was: “Thank you!” I grew up in upstate NY. So, I don’t think it started in the 90’s, but I think shows like South Park made it acceptable for more people to say. I hate the fact that when I go shopping, I hear adults say things like, “That shirt is so gay!”…they could mean gay as in flamboyant or as in lame, but it still annoys me to hear adults using gay as a slur. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/23 "2010-02-01T08:57:49Z")
I am gay and I have never heard gay = lame before the 90s. In the 80s especially the early to mid 80s, gay was so identified with AIDS, I find it hard to believe anyone would use gay to mean stupid or lame. I was fired for being gay in the 80s and I can tell you, when I said “I’m gay,” the first thing that happened is people would say “Oh my God do you have AIDS?” I’m not saying it never happened but I traveled a lot and I never heard gay (meaning lame) in any form till the 90s. As for _the Flintstones_ the **ORIGINAL** never changed it’s theme song, even the reruns remained the same. But in the mid 70s they made new _Flintstones_ television specials and it was these few specials that put “grand” or some other word in, instead of gay. But it quickly and quiety returned to “gay old time” I pulled some old stuff from my activist days from the Gay and Lesbian Activist Alliance, and I see a note about the Washington Times in 2003 > [@](#): > > It is the policy of the Washington Times (a conservative paper founded by Sun Myung Moon of the Unification Church to use the term "homosexual " in news stories except for when "gay " is part of a direct quote, according to managing editor Francis Coombs of the paper’s news division It then says that it’s only been 11 years since the New York Times abandoned a similar policy and begin using gay to mean homosexual. I did a quick look up of the Washington Post’s online guide to style and found this The Washington Post further delineates the usage in its style guide, encouraging the use of "gay " in many situations. > [@](#): > > Gay is generally preferred to homosexual. Homosexual should be reserved for a clinical or biological context. Be wary of using homosexual as a noun. In certain contexts, it can be seen as a slur. Gay should not be used as a sinular noun as in “a gay” ---
**Author:** ![rayman5321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@rayman5321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayman5321)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/24 "2010-02-01T11:58:22Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I just gotta share. > > The pop up (heh) ad I getting right now is two obviously happy mostly neked men laying on a bed telling me about a dream vacation I can win in Palm Springs California. I wonder if thats where Fred Flinstone lived? > > Back to OP, I too can distinctly remember the Flinstone’s gay to happy wordage shift. It was “We’ll have a great old time”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/25 "2010-02-01T12:58:10Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > That got started when a truck stop was trying to make money selling road kill and their free promotional bumper stickers they were giving out to truckers were tragically misinterpreted. Isn’t there a brand of children’s clothing called “eager beaver”? And what about these movies? [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/The_Gay_Divorcee_movie_poster.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/The_Gay_Divorcee_movie_poster.jpg) [http://eu.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/37/MPW-18826](http://eu.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/37/MPW-18826) [![](http://www.stephenlongstreet.com/1942_gaysisters_movie_ad.jpg) ](http://www.stephenlongstreet.com/1942_gaysisters_movie_ad.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/26 "2010-02-01T14:10:44Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Slight nitpick: Gay never really meant “happy.” it meant carefree and light-hearted and somewhat silly and not to be taken seriously. A party could be gay. A hat could be gay. A butterfly could be gay. > > And yes, the stereotype of a homosexual man was “light in the loafers” . . . somewhat silly and not to be taken seriously. So the meaning didn’t actually change; it just became a little narrower . . . and then broadened to include all GLBT people. Well, not really. In the 1890s, “gay” was a code word for prostitute: a “gay lady.” Male prostitutes were then called “gay boys” or “gay men.” The word then became common in the homosexual community, partly because it was a good shibboleth: if you saw another man you were attracted to, you could ask, “Do you know where people can have a gay time?” If gay, he’d know you were. If straight, he’d think you were looking for a party. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/27 "2010-02-01T14:37:52Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > At the time, could you actually verify this to be true? In my quick lazy Googling, I can’t find any reference to the lyrics to the Flintstones theme song ever being changed. And it does sound like the sort of urban legend which could easily arise among those of a certain mindset from a “What’ll they do next?” rant eventually misinterpreted somewhere and warped into an unchecked “Look what they’ve done!” rant. Did you even read my post? I explained why it would likey NOT be those things and even highly suggested (but I wouldnt bet my life on it) that I too personally recalled it. Remember, this was in the days of getting 3 or 4 TV channels if you were REALLY lucky (one or two if you were out in the boonies), no cell phones, mail service was generally only used for expensive/necessary things, no series of interconnected tubes, and heck, in the rural south even phone calls were uncommon because many calls would be long distance and they charged an arm and a leg for it back then. Also remember, back then, if even as an adult, if you happened to turn on the TV and just let it “run”, there would be a good chance of you seeing/hearing a Flintstones cartoon at some point even though you had no intention of actually watching a kids cartoon. So, I am pretty darn sure they heard firsthand the gay/grand/great word shift and for that matter I am pretty sure I personally did too. The fact I recall them complaining about it cemented it in my memory. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/28 "2010-02-01T14:53:05Z")
This past Christmas a group from our church went around the neighborhood singing Christmas carols. At the last house they finished up with “Deck the Halls.” As the group was breaking up, one said, “Well, I guess I need to go home and deck my halls.” My friend responded, “Yeah, and I need to go out and buy some gay apparel.” Most of the people laughed, but she said at least one person was really offended. ---
**Author:** ![hellpaso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecae2f/32.png) [@hellpaso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellpaso)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/29 "2010-02-01T14:56:39Z")
I’ve known several women (born pre-1960) named “Gay or Gaye”. It used to be a somewhat common girl’s name. I don’t remember it being widely used for homosexual until the latter 70s, but that could just be because that’s when I became an adult. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/30 "2010-02-01T15:24:29Z")
The Hardy Boys, from mid-century, used “gay” in contexts that were either totally non-sexual or thoroughly subversive. “‘Take me for a ride in your gay speed-wagon,’ Joe ejaculated.” > [@hellpaso](#): > > I’ve known several women (born pre-1960) named “Gay or Gaye”. It used to be a somewhat common girl’s name. I don’t remember it being widely used for homosexual until the latter 70s, but that could just be because that’s when I became an adult. I was recently looking at some old clips of The Price Is Right on youtube, and in one of them, Bob Barker announces, “The top winner in our showcase is Gay.” Nobody batted an eye on the show, but some of the youtube commenters were giggling. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/31 "2010-02-01T15:28:19Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > The pop up (heh) ad I getting right now is two obviously happy mostly neked men laying on a bed telling me about a dream vacation I can win in Palm Springs California. I wonder if thats where Fred Flinstone lived? The Flintstones lived in [Bedrock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedrock,_Colorado) (though presumably not that one, since it wasn’t founded in 1889). > [@rayman5321](#): > > It was “We’ll have a great old time”. _Au contraire._ > [@](#): > > Flintstones… Meet the Flintstones, > They’re a modern stone age family. > From the town of Bedrock, > They’re a page right out of history. > > Let’s ride with the family down the street. > Through the courtesy of Fred’s two feet. > > When you’re with the Flintstones, > have a yabba dabba doo time, > a dabba doo time, > we’ll have a gay old time ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/32 "2010-02-01T15:37:43Z")
Another example: I was watching a British detective series set in late Victorian times when the detective remarks about a man that “… he was my fag at Oxford, in the old days”. I know that this had a different meaning, something about older students mentoring younger ones or such-like; I’ve seen references to this use of the word “fag” before. I wonder, when did the word lose that meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/33 "2010-02-01T15:43:16Z")
It didn’t. _Fag_ is still used at British public (ie., high-end private) schools to denote younger students (alongside the other meaning). The difference nowadays is that “fagging” is a generalized process - you’re not assigned to an older student like a valet anymore, but assigned tasks like sweeping a specific room of the boarding house once a week. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/34 "2010-02-01T16:01:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It didn’t. _Fag_ is still used at British public (ie., high-end private) schools to denote younger students (alongside the other meaning). The difference nowadays is that “fagging” is a generalized process - you’re not assigned to an older student like a valet anymore, but assigned tasks like sweeping a specific room of the boarding house once a week. Heh, I had no idea it still survived in that context. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/35 "2010-02-01T16:19:29Z")
IIRC, in the early 70’s the Toronto newspapers were being taken to some standards council for refusing to run ads for “gay dances”. I remember reading the articles (I think the campus newspapers covered the issue in more depth than the mainstream) and one paper’s resposne was that the ads would be misinterpreted - that to some people " a gay dance" did not mean what it meant to others. IIRC several gay activists campaigned around that time on having “Gay” used instead of “Homosexual” simply because it was less clinical and explicit, just as the women’s lib movement tried to get “Ms.” accepted as a standard. Of course in those days it was considered funny (by some neaderthals) to wait outside the local gay bars and beat up the guys that came out. That only stopped after a particularly violent halloween parade where the gay parade was pelted with eggs (another Toronto tradition) and the police stood by and did nothing. (Because it was against the law to “wear a disguise in public” in Canada, halloween was the only time gays could dress up in public legally). That IIRC was around 1980. I think people today have forgotten how far human rights legislation and attitudes in general have come. I can remember “Whites Only” signs on gas station toilets; firing a woman when she got married or pregnant was normal for some businesses; one of the rights stewardesses won in the 70’s and 80’s was the right to complain about having their butt pinched without being told “the customer is always right”. And being beaten for being gay by insecure “manly” types was normal and rarely prosecuted, since the “manly” cops were rarely sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/36 "2010-02-01T16:21:12Z")
I always thought in Britain a “fag” was a cigarette. Is it still, or is that usage crowed out? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/37 "2010-02-01T16:39:25Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Then in the 90s gay stopped meaning “homosexual” totally and moved into gay = lame I must have missed a memo here. I probably hear gay (=homosexual) a hundred times for every once I hear gay (=lame). Of course, I’m not a schoolkid, and most of my friends are over 30, so perhaps it’s made that shift with the younguns, but magazines, newspapers, TV, and radio still refer to gay pride and gay people regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/38 "2010-02-01T16:53:07Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I always thought in Britain a “fag” was a cigarette. Is it still, or is that usage crowed out? British usage of fag/faggot - a primer: _Fag_ - public school whipping boy, cigarette, [dimin.] homosexual. _Faggot_ - homosexual, specific volume of bundled sticks, meatball made from pork offal ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/39 "2010-02-01T17:21:59Z")
Maybe, with the help of **samclem** , we can get it down to the exact year. Although I wasn’t around in the 1950s, I’ve seen magazines and newspapers from the era, and the word “gay” was quite prevalent in its former meaning, sometimes in ways that look absolutely hilarious today (e.g. ads for “gay cruises” that show illustrations of happy 1950s white families). “Gay” seemed to fade away in advertising starting in the early 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184/40 "2010-02-01T18:20:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _Faggot_ - homosexual, specific volume of bundled sticks, meatball made from pork offal [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1oQRQHfaGWc/hqdefault.jpg "Adelphoi: MR. BRAIN'S PORK FAGGOTS 'Real Men'") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oQRQHfaGWc) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-gay-come-almost-exclusively-to-mean-homosexual/527184.md?page=3)