# When did ghosts start rattling chains and moaning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864 "2005-10-05T11:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/1 "2005-10-05T11:53:27Z")
Has this been an occurence for all times or a creation of the Gothic or Victorian years? I’ve always wondered about this every time I see an episode of Scooby Doo. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/2 "2005-10-05T12:03:53Z")
Traditional Japanese ghost stories feature spirits moaning. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/3 "2005-10-05T12:27:19Z")
Well, Marley’s ghost (in _A Christmas Carol_) had to drag around a chain of money boxes, but that was a poetic punishment, not just to make spooky noise. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/4 "2005-10-05T12:59:46Z")
Perhaps the Marley ghost began the stereotypical chain thing. Anybody know if ghosts had chains before _A Christmas Carol_? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/5 "2005-10-05T13:12:36Z")
Not long ago I read a book of Medieval ghost stories, going from the 700s to the 1400s. It’s surprising how far back the ghost story tropes go, including the moaning and groaning, usually associated with a violent death. The chain rattling goes back even further to ghost stories in Ancient Roman literature. Pliny the Younger wrote a haunted story, circa A.D. 102, with a chain rattling ghost. The ghost’s corpse is found in chains. It was believed by the Romans that chains were one of the few ways to keep a ghost from wandering about. A 4th century author asserts, > [@](#): > > Great, accordingly, are the chains on the ghosts; they tie even the most fleet and elusive apparition tightly to death and bind a soul like the body of a man accused. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/6 "2005-10-05T14:14:24Z")
For further reference: [_Magic, Witchcraft, and Ghosts in the Greek and Roman Worlds: A Sourcebook_](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195151232/102-5010485-2427366), by Daniel Ogden. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/7 "2005-10-05T14:20:53Z")
Good stuff **Walloon** , thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/8 "2005-10-05T14:34:08Z")
How can a ghost carry chains? Why does a ghost wear clothes? How do a dead person’s clothes turn into “spirit” clothes? I would thing ghosts would be nekkid. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-ghosts-start-rattling-chains-and-moaning/324864/9 "2005-10-05T14:53:28Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > How can a ghost carry chains? > > Why does a ghost wear clothes? > How do a dead person’s clothes turn into “spirit” clothes? > I would thing ghosts would be nekkid. “What am I, some sort of blind ghost with clothes ?” - Geordi LaForge.