# When did God evolve Adam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619 "2003-12-17T21:23:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/1 "2003-12-17T21:23:46Z")
Assuming that evolution is the method by which God created Adam, when did Adam live? (A non-literal belief in Genesis is also assumed in that there was an Adam or a belief in the Koran in that Adam was real and a prophet will do.) (_The Journey of Man_ would be good background reading. It theorizes when the Adam and Eve lived, albeit at different times.) So, how was Adam different from his father. Did Adam harness fire, invent the wheel, draw a picture, or just realize the existence of God? Where in the evolution of Man is Adam? ---
**Author:** ![bagkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ab992/32.png) [@bagkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagkitty)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/2 "2003-12-17T21:52:40Z")
morning, sixth day (snort, guffaw):smack: ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/3 "2003-12-17T22:08:09Z")
Maybe I’m missing something here. A non-literal belief in Genesis would lead me to the conclusion that there was not **an** Adam. Are you asking, “with which development did man become self-aware?” Or “civilized?” Or, at which point did man develop shame? Are you asking us to define what makes Adam, “Adam”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/4 "2003-12-17T22:10:03Z")
Why would you believe in a literal Adam if you don’t believe in a literal creation story? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/5 "2003-12-18T07:35:19Z")
As others have said, your question is flawed. However, in a related matter, the Catholic church has no problem with evolution as long as it is understood that _somewhere_ along the line, God imbued man with a soul that made him unique from all other creatures. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/6 "2003-12-18T07:46:05Z")
The point about “Adam” is that he was sufficienty evolved, intellectually and morally, to be able to tell right from wrong and to choose between them. So your question really comes down to, when did humanity reach this stage of evolution? I’ve no idea. I doubt if anyone does. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/7 "2003-12-18T07:56:15Z")
The story of Adam and Eve is a myth. The stories of Genesis may have a greater meaning, or a spiritual meaning, but they are not literally true. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/8 "2003-12-18T08:00:21Z")
Awful sure of yourself there, Aeschines. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/9 "2003-12-18T08:14:09Z")
What’s not to be sure of? It’s like debating whether Zeus or Poseidon should rule the gods. And, anyway, the question itself is mighty mixed up. Most Christians that take the story of Adam literally don’t believe in evolution. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/10 "2003-12-18T08:48:56Z")
People not believing in evolution?!?!?!?!! THE HORROR!!! Can’t have that, now. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/11 "2003-12-18T09:04:26Z")
I’m sure this gray area has been gone over, but is there any clear distinction drawn around here between “literal belief in the sacred texts of certain Dopers” and “defending ignorance”?Maybe I should take this up at ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/12 "2003-12-18T11:56:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\*People not believing in evolution?!?!?!?!! > > THE HORROR!!! > > Can’t have that, now. \*\* Eh, not horror, just lack of education. And there’s no need to “believe” in evolution–there’s no creed, no articles of faith that are held blindly. The theory of evolution (and no, theory does NOT mean " a wild guess"; look up the meaning in a dictionary before you embarrass yourself). All evolution means is that a heritable characteristic or set of characteristics that allows for greater fitness, i.e.,reproduction, spread through a population faster than those that don’t. There are any number of resources on the Web and in your local library that could help you understand what evolution is and what it isn’t. The [talkorigins.org](http://talkorigins.org) FAQ is a great place to start. Now you and your fundie pals can believe that humans were sculpted from clay 6,000 years ago, or that the earth is flat, or that the Fujian flu is caused by demonic possession, but that only demonstrates how the fundies conflate holiness with ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/13 "2003-12-18T12:03:39Z")
Oops, I deleted one sentence while I was editing. It should read, “The theory of evolution (and no, theory does NOT mean " a wild guess”; look up the meaning in a dictionary before you embarrass yourself) has been subjected to test after test test; not to accept it is to willfully deny the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/14 "2003-12-18T12:36:01Z")
I agree with gobear-evolution happened, that’s a fact and the only people who deny that it happen are the people who either don’t understand it, who think it denies the existence of God, or the people whose faiths would be obliterated if not every single sentence in the bible was inerrant. As for Adam and Eve, they are surely mythical characters in my opinion, but to play the ‘almost’ literalist for a second: You could suppose that Adam and Eve really existed, way back when, the difference between A&E and regular hominids being the soul-which you could speculate is the center for moral reasoning and higher thought. Granted there isn’t any proof of this, but if you wanted proof we shouldn’t be talking about ‘faith issues’. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/15 "2003-12-18T12:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AcidKid \* > \*\*Assuming that evolution is the method by which God created Adam, when did Adam live? (A non-literal belief in Genesis is also assumed in that there was an Adam or a belief in the Koran in that Adam was real and a prophet will do.) > > (_The Journey of Man_ would be good background reading. It theorizes when the Adam and Eve lived, albeit at different times.) > > So, how was Adam different from his father. Did Adam harness fire, invent the wheel, draw a picture, or just realize the existence of God? > > Where in the evolution of Man is Adam? \*\* Hmmm. . . not much of a debate when the OP goes AWOL on us. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/16 "2003-12-18T13:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > As for Adam and Eve, they are surely mythical characters in my opinion, but to play the ‘almost’ literalist for a second: You could suppose that Adam and Eve really existed, way back when, the difference between A&E and regular hominids being the soul-which you could speculate is the center for moral reasoning and higher thought. > > Granted there isn’t any proof of this, but if you wanted proof we shouldn’t be talking about ‘faith issues’. 😉 I believe in evolution and think that there’s truth to the A&E story. It is the creation of man’s spirit/soul and whatever truth there is to the Garden of Eden, although I think a lot of that is symbolic. Admittedly I feel more comfortable with anything I can think to make the Bible and evolution compatible. And I liked the part in Wizard of Oz where the scarecrow got a brain, so it’s even hard for me to take my “theories” seriously. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/17 "2003-12-18T14:48:18Z")
As a Old-Earth-Creationist-bordering-on-Theistic-Evolution… I do hold Genesis 2 onwards to be historical, and would not be surprised if Adam & Eve were born around 4000 BC, and were the first humans to recognize God as Parent and themselves as potential children of God. There may have been Creator-revering, literate, artistic, tool-using humans before Adam & Eve, but A & E were the first endowed with the ability to be “family” to God and given the challenge of trusting Him and the opportunity to transcend mortality… which they blew. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/18 "2003-12-18T15:01:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I do hold Genesis 2 onwards to be historical, and would not be surprised if Adam & Eve were born around 4000 BC, and were the first humans to recognize God as Parent and themselves as potential children of God. Well, if you mean that God chose two Neolithic farmers out of the entire population of the earth in 4,000 BCE to be “ensouled” or whatever, that’s a matter of faith and thus can’t be tested. If you mean that God created humans and the whole earth in 4,000 BCE, there’s a ton of evidence to disprove that contention. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/19 "2003-12-18T15:09:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*As a Old-Earth-Creationist-bordering-on-Theistic-Evolution… > > I do hold Genesis 2 onwards to be historical, and would not be surprised if Adam & Eve were born around 4000 BC, and were the first humans to recognize God as Parent and themselves as potential children of God. There may have been Creator-revering, literate, artistic, tool-using humans before Adam & Eve, but A & E were the first endowed with the ability to be “family” to God and given the challenge of trusting Him and the opportunity to transcend mortality… which they blew. \*\* Are all people alive today descended from them? There appears to be good evidence that Native American’s were present in North America long before that. Maybe that’s why Christian settlers felt it was OK to massacre them as they weren’t “family to God”. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619/20 "2003-12-18T15:25:38Z")
If you live in England, and are of 100% English ancestry, your ancestors, say, 1,000 years ago (number pulled out of my ass; feel free to supply the right date, anyone) spoke a language we now call “Old English” (oversimplifying here, to make a point). That ancestor was able to converse cleary with his children in Old English, and they communicated clearly with their children, and so on. Until the present day, when the language you learned from your most recent ancestors–Modern English, from your parents–allows you to communicate clearly with them. You and your 1,000-year-old ancestor speak two different languages. But at no point along the descent that led to your birth was a parent unable to communicate with their child because of language difficulties (except teenagers). Even allowing, for the sake of discussion, for the existence of a soul–a concept which I prefer to think of as consciouness or _mind_–the “pre-ensouled” ancestor is analogous to the Old English ancestor, and the “ensouled” Adam is you. Though I couldn’t have written that less clearly with an ax buried in my head, I hope I’ve brought the analogy across. To insist on a black/white, line-in-the-sand demarcation between one “state” and another is nonsensical; that’s just not the way these things work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-god-evolve-adam/219619.md?page=2)