# When did guano become associated with mental instability? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488 "2006-03-08T03:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/1 "2006-03-08T03:41:22Z")
Batshit insane. I use it, you use it, we all use it. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/2 "2006-03-08T03:57:57Z")
> [@](#): > > When did guano become associated with mental instability? For me, the time can be precisely fixed: 9:41pm today. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/3 "2006-03-08T03:59:42Z")
[Sorry - hit POST too soon]. I meant 3:41 - the time of the OP. That’s the first time I’ve heard this expression. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/4 "2006-03-08T04:13:54Z")
“Bats in the belfry” was a common idiom connected to madness. After a while, the association was so taken for granted that someone might simply be described as “batty” with no room for confusion. Since “bat” already had this assocation, the addition of “shit” works literally and also as a sort of intensifier. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/5 "2006-03-08T04:46:52Z")
_Batshit_ shows up first in print about the 1950’s in military speak to mean _rubbish_ and _bullshit_. By 1970, it meant _crazy_. Probably derived from _bullshit_. You can find people saying “batshit crazy” and “batshit insane” by the late 1980’s. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/6 "2006-03-08T06:49:59Z")
Come to think of it, is guano actually batshit? I thought it was from a kind of bird. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/7 "2006-03-08T07:16:59Z")
It’s interesting that different types of animal waste have come to mean different things: _Batshit_ means crazy. _Apeshit_ means berserk. _Bullshit_ means lies or nonsense. _Chickenshit_ means petty (as in “chickenshit outfit”). I guess _horseshit_ has the same meaning as _bullshit_ - I’ve never been able to sense any difference in the way people use the words. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/8 "2006-03-08T08:47:21Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Come to think of it, is guano actually batshit? I thought it was from a kind of bird. Merriam-Webster Online guano Etymology: Spanish, from Quechua _wanu_ fertilizer, dung : a substance composed chiefly of the excrement of seafowl and used as a fertilizer; also : a similar substance (as bat excrement or cannery waste) especially when used for fertilizer CMC fnord ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/9 "2006-03-08T15:08:33Z")
Having visited Carlsbad Carverns a number of times, I can testify that the term guano is, in fact, extended to include bat droppings. And also the fact that said droppings were once “harvested” from the caverns. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/10 "2006-03-08T15:50:13Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > _Batshit_ shows up first in print about the 1950’s in military speak to mean _rubbish_ and _bullshit_. By 1970, it meant _crazy_. Probably derived from _bullshit_. > > You can find people saying “batshit crazy” and “batshit insane” by the late 1980’s. In comes up in _Dr Strangelove_ 1964. Of course everyone remembers General Jack D. Ripper but Keenan Wynn’s character also has a unique name. GC Mandrake: Look Colonel (looks at name tape) Batguano, if that is your real name… So by 1964 the term was known enough to be in a movie. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/11 "2006-03-08T15:56:48Z")
Nitpick: That’s “Col. ‘Bat’ Guano.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/12 "2006-03-08T16:10:07Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Nitpick: That’s “Col. ‘Bat’ Guano.” Renitpick that’s what it says on IMDB but it is wrong. His name tag says Batguano. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/13 "2006-03-08T16:18:16Z")
That is to say that is how I remember it. I have seen the movie dozens of times but not for a year or so. The name tag does say Batguano and I don’t think there is a space. I have never seen a military name tag with a first name but it was a movie after all. I still stand by my answer until proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/14 "2006-03-08T17:30:02Z")
Colonel “Bat” Guano[ > [@](#): > > A loudspeaker suddenly clicks on in the distance. > > ``` > COLONEL "BAT" GUANO > (loudspeaker) > This is Colonel "Bat" Guano of the 701st Special > Service Battalion. Why are you men firing on us? > > Silence. > > PRIVATE STIFFSOCKS > Should we answer? > > SERGEANT BLUNT > Keep down, you dope, and open up on the first one > who shows his head. > > COLONEL "BAT" GUANO > This is Colonel Guano. We are on a mission > from the President. We want to enter the base > and speak to General Ripper. > > ``` ]([http://scifiscripts.com/scripts/strangelove.txt](http://scifiscripts.com/scripts/strangelove.txt))[ > [@](#): > > Mandrake: > > Now look, Colonel… Bat Guano, if that really is your name, may I tell you that I have a very, very good idea, I think, I hope, I pray, what the recall code is. It’s some sort of recurrent theme he kept repeating. It’s a variation on Peace on Earth or Purity of Essence. E O P. O P E. It’s one of those! ]([http://corky.net/scripts/drStrangelove.html](http://corky.net/scripts/drStrangelove.html)) CMC fnord ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/15 "2006-03-08T18:05:26Z")
I would have to go off what is in the movie, not what is written in some website. Many script sites are as inaccurate as IMDB. I’m not saying I’m correct, I’m saying it will take seeing the scene in question. Unfortunately I do not own it. I’m sure **lissener** has it somewhere in his underground movie bunker. There seems to be no pictures of Keenan Wynn in character on the entire internet, or google hates me. The best I could come up with is [this.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.classictrailers.co.uk/images/directors/kubrick.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.classictrailers.co.uk/strangelove.html&h=131&w=100&sz=12&tbnid=706l8gzwtJ7x0M:&tbnh=86&tbnw=65&hl=en&start=214&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkeenan%2Bwynn%26start%3D200%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN) It’s the original trailer to the movie. There is a quick shot of Keenan Wynn in uniform with his name tag showing. The image is too small and goes by too quick for me to read it. Maybe someone can do something with it. If not it is still interesting to see the old trailer. To go back to my original point, it still proves that the term was understood back to at least 1964. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/16 "2006-03-08T19:47:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I would have to go off what is in the movie, not what is written in some website. [Here’s a .wav file](http://www.lukefisher.com/batguano.wav). It sounds like two distinct words to me. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/17 "2006-03-08T20:02:16Z")
> [@Jeff Lichtman](#): > > I guess _horseshit_ has the same meaning as _bullshit_ - I’ve never been able to sense any difference in the way people use the words. “Horseshit” generally involves less malice. The way I see it, “bullshit” implies lying as a means to an end, and “horseshit” is just making stuff up for the hell of it. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-guano-become-associated-with-mental-instability/347488/18 "2006-03-10T02:29:10Z")
I missed that reference in Strangelove, then again I missed a lot back then. **Samlcem** seems to always be the go to guy for anything coined. Thanks.