# When did Hannibal Lector become someone the audience cheers for? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221 "2015-05-17T04:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/81 "2015-05-26T05:29:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And that has what to do with villains in a _fictional_ setting? You’ve never heard of the phrase, “someone you love to hate?” > > Can you please be more specific, dude? (Anyone else know what the fuck he’s talking about?) Yes, I can. The quote from Nietzsche refers to an alleged innate belligerence which is supposedly exploited by TV and movie producers seeking to target an audience to whom their work will appeal. As I see it, the only way someone like Hannibal Lecter could appeal to the audience is if they HAVE that hidden urge to attack and kill. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/82 "2015-05-26T07:42:24Z")
After reading “Hannibal Rising”, I came up with the idea that Lector saw Starling as his baby sister, or who his baby sister might have grown up to be if the other events in RH hadn’t come to be. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/83 "2015-05-26T08:09:43Z")
I think he won audiences over by killing Miggs and offering Clarice a towel. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/84 "2015-05-26T10:49:21Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > After reading “Hannibal Rising”, I came up with the idea that Lector saw Starling as his baby sister, or who his baby sister might have grown up to be if the other events in RH hadn’t come to be. She suggested that to him. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/85 "2015-05-26T11:55:50Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > After reading “Hannibal Rising”, I came up with the idea that Lector saw Starling as his baby sister, or who his baby sister might have grown up to be if the other events in RH hadn’t come to be. That is fairly explicitly stated in the novel _Hannibal._ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/86 "2015-05-26T13:48:27Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That is fairly explicitly stated in the novel _Hannibal._ Including the part where he suckles at her (undoubtedly very pretty) boob? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/87 "2015-05-26T13:57:17Z")
I decline to discuss this character with you any further, **Skald**. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/88 "2015-05-26T15:01:07Z")
The Devil gets the best lines, and Harris did a good job of making him intelligent in a scary and fascinating way. I remember the first time I saw SOTL in the theaters; I hadn’t read the books but had seen “Manhunter” and remembered the character of Lecter (where I found his characterization by Brian Cox scary). I remember being terrified, yet fascinated by him - here was someone that could get inside your head and out think you. So as evil as he is, he is usually the most interesting thing on the page or screen. (In answer to the OP - I think the end of SOTL when the audience is happy that Chilton dies is when the ball gets rolling into him being a character audiences root for) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/89 "2015-05-26T15:22:06Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > “Manhunter” and remembered the character of Lecter (where I found his characterization by Brian Cox scary). Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/90 "2015-05-26T15:31:13Z")
Cox’s performance as Lecter was more restrained and menacing than Hopkins’ take on the character. Lecter was not as central a character in the _Manhunter_ movie, though. Cox has shown himself capable of Shatnerian performances elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/91 "2015-05-26T16:01:58Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Cox’s performance as Lecter was more restrained and menacing than Hopkins’ take on the character. Lecter was not as central a character in the _Manhunter_ movie, though. Cox has shown himself capable of Shatnerian performances elsewhere. Including one as an airplane passenger? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/92 "2015-05-28T04:42:09Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Yes, I can. The quote from Nietzsche refers to an alleged innate belligerence which is supposedly exploited by TV and movie producers seeking to target an audience to whom their work will appeal. As I see it, the only way someone like Hannibal Lecter could appeal to the audience is if they HAVE that hidden urge to attack and kill. Well, I’ve never had that “urge to kill”, so maybe you know something I don’t. I just like to see the bad guys be, you know, really bad and not boring. Like horror movies – I like being scared. Because I know it’s, you know, fiction. It’s like Darth Vader was one of the coolest characters ever, but that doesn’t mean I want to go around and choke people. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/93 "2015-05-28T08:54:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Including the part where he suckles at her (undoubtedly very pretty) boob? Lecter’s capable of operating on a variety of levels, but the novel HANNIBAL does have Lecter considering trying to reconstruct his sister in Clarice’s mind but he either sets it aside or introduces a minimal aspect of her becuase he prefers Clarice as a lover. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/94 "2015-05-28T15:28:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, I’ve never had that “urge to kill”, so maybe you know something I don’t. I just like to see the bad guys be, you know, really bad and not boring. Like horror movies – I like being scared. Because I know it’s, you know, fiction. > > It’s like Darth Vader was one of the coolest characters ever, but that doesn’t mean I want to go around and choke people. Your point is well taken. If I saw a Star Wars movie I should expect to see Darth Vader behave as Darth Vader. But I would also prefer that at least by the end of the picture, he get his just desserts and be hauled off to some interplanetary hoosegow. And if he triumphs in the end, and somehow I can tell that the audience cheers that, it bodes ill for the audience, to my way of thinking, because that says a great deal about THEIR values. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/95 "2015-05-28T15:53:18Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Your point is well taken. If I saw a Star Wars movie I should expect to see Darth Vader behave as Darth Vader. But I would also prefer that at least by the end of the picture, he get his just desserts and be hauled off to some interplanetary hoosegow. > And if he triumphs in the end, and somehow I can tell that the audience cheers that, it bodes ill for the audience, to my way of thinking, because that says a great deal about THEIR values. ☹ It is possible for people to separate reality from fiction. I don’t think you need to worry too much about the values of people enjoying a movie in some escapists way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/96 "2015-05-28T15:57:54Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > And if he triumphs in the end, and somehow I can tell that the audience cheers that, it bodes ill for the audience, to my way of thinking, because that says a great deal about THEIR values. ☹ It really doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/97 "2015-05-28T15:57:56Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Lecter’s capable of operating on a variety of levels, but the novel HANNIBAL does have Lecter considering trying to reconstruct his sister in Clarice’s mind but he either sets it aside or introduces a minimal aspect of her becuase he prefers Clarice as a lover. You mean because “because he prefers to rape Clarice.” Because it WAS rape. Lecter rewarded her decency and heroism with perfidy and kidnapping. He drugged and brainwashed her, then fucked her. He’s a rapist. The brave, savvy, determined Clarice no longer existed when Barney saw them in Rio; what was left was not a liberated new woman, but a shell. Despite all the Evil!Skald jokes, I don’t care for stories in which iniquity ultimately triumphs and virtue is finally vanquished. I can read the newspaper for that shit. I don’t need my heroes to be perfect or my villains charmless; shades of grey are fine (well, not FIFTY SHADES OF GREY, but otherwise). But I’m not gonna root for a rapist, for a character who kills and eats.humans because they’re rude, for a corrupter of the courageous and heroic. I’ll cheer if Ardelia Mapp ever tracks down Lecter and shoots him in the throat. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/98 "2015-05-28T16:09:43Z")
You do realize that both Lecter and Starling are fictional characters from the mind of the same author, right? The degree of emotional investment you are displaying in Starling makes me unsure that you do. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/99 "2015-05-28T16:14:29Z")
Lecter is a fascinating character, but undoubtedly evil and quite possibly insane (I think the evidence is mixed on that point). He only occasionally killed people who were - in Hollywood terms, at least - deserving of their fate. I never cheered for him. Fans of _Manhunter_ might want to visit the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, incidentally, as my family recently did; it stood in for Lecter’s asylum in that movie: [![](https://www.the-medium-is-not-enough.com/images/ManhunterPrison.jpg) ](https://www.the-medium-is-not-enough.com/images/ManhunterPrison.jpg) [![](http://www.greatbuildings.com/gbc/images/cid_1248213149_2919711163.jpg) ](http://www.greatbuildings.com/gbc/images/cid_1248213149_2919711163.jpg) > **[Welcome to the High Museum](https://www.high.org/?gclid=CKPli5Lq5MUCFQ4oaQod13AAPA)** > > The High Museum of Art is designed to meet audiences at the intersection of culture and community. We invite you to use the Museum as a place to find inspiration, discover new ideas, meet old friends, and make new ones. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221/100 "2015-05-28T16:15:04Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I know you think you’re clever and funny, but knock it off with the Welsh jokes. Huh, and here I was thinking you were a Cornishman. (“By Tre, Pol and Pen…”) 😉 /hijack [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-hannibal-lector-become-someone-the-audience-cheers-for/720221.md?page=6)