# When did India become so repressive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323 "2012-09-10T20:03:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/1 "2012-09-10T20:03:55Z")
OK, I know the state has been pretty ruthless at times (Indira Ghandi’s emergency decrees, etc) but I’ve always considered India to be basically a liberal democracy, valuing much the same basic freedoms as the West. Which is why [this story](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-19540565) shocked me. > [@](#): > > The arrest of an Indian anti-corruption cartoonist on sedition charges has sparked widespread criticism. > > Aseem Trivedi appeared in court in Mumbai and was remanded in custody until 24 September for cartoons allegedly mocking the constitution. Mocking the constitution is a crime in India? When did that happen, or has it ever been thus and I’m way off track (as usual)? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/2 "2012-09-10T21:16:41Z")
1. It’s **Gandhi** 2. India _is_ a liberal democracy. However, the world is complicated, so things aren’t always that simple. There are times when an official oversteps and democracy has to be defended. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/3 "2012-09-10T22:09:49Z")
India is very much a society in transition, and as Acsenray has hinted, a complex place even by the standards of a complicated world. I would caution you against drawing any conclusions based on the odd newspaper story. In this case for instance, the police have already given up custody of the [cartoonist](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Police-give-up-custody-cartoonist-Aseem-Trivedi-sticks-to-guns/articleshow/16344455.cms) after widespread outrage over his arrest. That said, freedom of speech and expression is far more restricted in India than in the West. In particular, speech that is critical of religious communities is not looked at kindly. Also, India’s political and governing class is used to much more power than they currently wield, and much more deference than they currently get. They’ve been terrible at handling a growing tide of (sometimes well deserved, if not always well directed) criticism. This is just another faux pas in that list. Think bumbling and ham-fisted bureaucrats, not evil repressive dictators. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/4 "2012-09-10T22:14:56Z")
Genocidal style massacres between religious factions are part of the landscape in India. There is a lot more sensitivity (with some justification) re people doing things that will potentially stir shit up between these groups. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/5 "2012-09-11T02:41:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. It’s **Gandhi** … No relation to the _other_ famous Gandhi. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/6 "2012-09-11T05:13:43Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Genocidal style massacres between religious factions are part of the landscape in India. There is a lot more sensitivity (with some justification) re people doing things that will potentially stir shit up between these groups. Unless you count long long ago as part of the landscape, no, ‘genocidal style’ massacres are not exactly common. However, you’re right in that the laws exist because of tension between religious communities. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/7 "2012-09-11T05:32:07Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Unless you count long long ago as part of the landscape, no, ‘genocidal style’ massacres are not exactly common. However, you’re right in that the laws exist because of tension between religious communities. Really? [Religious violence in India](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India) > [@](#): > > Two major anti-Muslim riots have happened in India since the 1990s and none since 2002. The history of modern India has many incidents of communal violence which, in many cases, are alleged to be state-backed, and police has supposedly played an active and biased role in carrying out cold blooded massacres,acts of rape and damaging properties of the minority communities especially Muslims, Christians and Sikhs. Tensions between Hindu and Muslim started coming to light a few years before the independence of the Indian-sub continent and as per the Pakistani historians, anti-Muslim riots were one of the reasons which led to the creation of Pakistan. This thought contrasts with the more widely held Two Nation Theory as the main reason. These riots were supposedly provoked by colonizers and politicians for personal gains and vested interests. India have risen[98] and has led to several major incidences of religious violence such as Hashimpura massacre (1987), Bombay riots, 1993 Bombay bombings, Godhra Train Burning, and 2002 Gujarat violence. [Ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus - 1990](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India) > [@](#): > > In the Kashmir region, approximately 300 Kashmiri Pandits were killed between September 1989 to 1990 in various incidents.[78] In early 1990, local Urdu newspapers Aftab and Al Safa called upon Kashmiris to wage jihad against India and ordered the expulsion of all Hindus choosing to remain in Kashmir.[78] In the following days masked men ran in the streets with AK-47 shooting to kill Hindus who would not leave.[78] Notices were placed on the houses of all Hindus, telling them to leave within 24 hours or die [Hondh-Chillar massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hondh-Chillar_Massacre#Pataudi_massacre) [1984 anti-Sikh riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots) > [@](#): > > The 1984 Sikh Genocide[2][3][4][5] or the 1984 Sikh Massacre was a pogrom directed against Sikhs in northern India in response to the assassination of Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards. CBI is of the opinion that the acts of violence were well organized with support from the then Delhi police officials and the central government headed by Indira Gandhi’s son, Rajiv Gandhi. [6] Rajiv, who was sworn in as the Prime Minister after his mother’s death, when asked about the riots said “when a big tree falls, the earth shakes”. [7] ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/8 "2012-09-11T05:32:35Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Unless you count long long ago as part of the landscape, no, ‘genocidal style’ massacres are not exactly common. However, you’re right in that the laws exist because of tension between religious communities. I think he was referring to sectarian riots, like the [2002 Gujarat riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence) (1,000+ killed) or the 1992-3 [Babri Masjid riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_of_Babri_Masjid) (2,000+ dead). I don’t think 10 or 20 years qualifies as “long long ago.” ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/9 "2012-09-11T08:28:42Z")
leave aside 1984 sikh riots as an aberration. Hindus and Sikhs have always lived peacefully. You will find Islamic extremists involved in all other major riots (there havent been many I believe). Islamic extremists have been at war all over the world with all kinds of people and places where you will least expect for ex. you might recall 2009 Uighur riots in China which left 1000 dead, or [south Thailand insurgency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency)which has left 5000+ dead and 10000 injured so far. SO , thats not a problem specific to India. And India tries hard to maintain peace between all communities. Very rarely does a riot happen. @Topic: Present day government is highly unpopular among people due to corruption charges and is rattled and so is behaving in such way. This incident have be looked at as just an act of stupidity by some in the authority. Bail has already been granted in this case. India is in desperate need of 1. Anti-corruption department with independent investigation capabilities. 2. Electoral reforms 3. Judicial reforms These three will eventually come(not under present govt. as they of their vested interests). There has been massive public pressure from last year. Next election is due in 2014. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/10 "2012-09-11T09:35:26Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I think he was referring to sectarian riots, like the [2002 Gujarat riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence) (1,000+ killed) or the 1992-3 [Babri Masjid riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_of_Babri_Masjid) (2,000+ dead). > > I don’t think 10 or 20 years qualifies as “long long ago.” I don’t think those qualify as Genocidal-style riots either. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/11 "2012-09-11T09:37:40Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Really? > [Religious violence in India](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India) > > [Ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus - 1990](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India) > [Hondh-Chillar massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hondh-Chillar_Massacre#Pataudi_massacre) > [1984 anti-Sikh riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots) Yes, really. Which of those qualify as ‘Genocidal-Style’ events for you? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/12 "2012-09-11T14:10:57Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I don’t think those qualify as Genocidal-style riots either. I didn’t use the word “genocidal.” The poster clearly meant “sectarian.” But your disingenuous nit-picking has been appropriately noted. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/13 "2012-09-11T14:14:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. It’s **Gandhi** 😃 You keep on fighting that good fight, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/14 "2012-09-11T14:34:29Z")
India is one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. It’s a mistake to buy into its propaganda and that of other countries with much political and monetary interests in it that India is the “world’s biggest democracy.” It’s a cess pool of corruption, injustice and religious strife internal and imported. It should not be surprising that a corrupt government and its police toadies gag a popular protestor, especially when there’s a newspaper involved. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/15 "2012-09-11T14:39:29Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > It’s a cess pool of corruption, injustice and religious strife internal and imported. Analytically speaking, it can be all that and still be the world’s largest democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/16 "2012-09-11T14:41:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Analytically speaking, it can be all that and still be the world’s largest democracy. Yes. Plus, as I always remind people, independence was only achieved in 1947! It is now 2012. In 65 years they have made leaps and bounds. Give them a couple of hundred to get to the entrenched corruption of the US. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/17 "2012-09-11T15:04:40Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > No relation to the _other_ famous Gandhi. Not Mohandas, but she’s certainly related to famous Gandhis: Feroze, Rajiv, Sonia and Rahul. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/18 "2012-09-11T15:08:43Z")
Sonia Gandhi was only famous by accident/marriage! …Whoa, that was kind of snotty of me. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/19 "2012-09-11T15:14:52Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > India is one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. > > It’s a mistake to buy into its propaganda and that of other countries with much political and monetary interests in it that India is the “world’s biggest democracy.” It’s a cess pool of corruption, injustice and religious strife internal and imported. > > It should not be surprising that a corrupt government and its police toadies gag a popular protestor, especially when there’s a newspaper involved. You are being too harsh. We are around 95th best out of 182 nations in [Corruption Perceptions Index 2011](http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/). We aren’t one of the most corrupt even with more mainstream media tv channels and newspapers than you can count on your hands to expose Governments and which would tend to magnify the perceived corruption. Anyways, to fight corruption, you require anti-graft department with an independent investigation team. Once that comes, 60-70% corruption in India as per some estimates will be eradicated. And thats what the civil society here is fighting for. 21st century is definitely going to be India’s and China’s. Just check out the GDP growth rates of last decade, you will come to know. China has got a 20 yr headstart wrt the economic reform policies. But India is bound to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/20 "2012-09-11T15:28:12Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Sonia Gandhi was only famous by accident/marriage! The Kardashians may not be deservedly famous, but they’re famous nonetheless. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323.md?page=2)