# When did India become so repressive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323 "2012-09-10T20:03:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/21 "2012-09-11T15:43:20Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > India is one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. > > It’s a mistake to buy into its propaganda and that of other countries with much political and monetary interests in it that India is the “world’s biggest democracy.” It’s a cess pool of corruption, injustice and religious strife internal and imported. > > It should not be surprising that a corrupt government and its police toadies gag a popular protestor, especially when there’s a newspaper involved. Phir bhi Mera Bharat Mahan.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/22 "2012-09-11T15:48:38Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Sonia Gandhi was only famous by accident/marriage! She kind of is running the Congress Party, so regardless of how she got there, she’s justifiably famous now. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/23 "2012-09-11T19:39:20Z")
> [@indian](#): > > phir bhi mera bharat mahan.😉 No argument. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/24 "2012-09-11T20:51:27Z")
Of course the largest terrorist act in Canada, the bomb which killed about 300 people on an Air India jet in the mid-80’s, was strictly a Hindu-Sikh thing, no Islamics need apply. Along with that was the murder of Indira (“the other”) Gandhi by her bodyguards, the assault on extremists holed up in the holy Sikh site, the Golden Temple… It’s a 3-way cluster…something. The amazing thing is how peaceful the Sikh-Hindu thing seems to be in the last decade or so, considering the history. It seems that various religious types have a history of deliberately provoking each other, especially extremist politicians when it gets them points with fanatical supporters. But yes, this seems to have been a local Indian state’s own little “Pussy Riot” issue. Consider that if the more extreme types had their way 15 or 20 years ago, insulting the flag would have been a crime in the USA - no surprise some laws on the books in India seem a little extreme today. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/25 "2012-09-11T21:05:01Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The amazing thing is how peaceful the Sikh-Hindu thing seems to be in the last decade or so, considering the history. Actually it’s the opposite. Given the history between Hindus and Sikhs, what’s amazing is how bad it got for a few years. Indira Gandhi herself can probably take a lot of the blame for that. As for why it’s peaceful now, it’s not that big a mystery. The Indian government killed all the Sikh extremists in extrajudicial “police actions.” ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/26 "2012-09-11T21:28:27Z")
> [@Indian](#): > > Phir bhi Mera Bharat Mahan.😉 Sub say achha, for visiting anyway. Just got back from Ladakh a bit ago. Near as I could get to my boyhood stomping grounds, since taken over by Al Qaeda so I had to move west a bit to get the same feel. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/27 "2012-09-11T21:55:36Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Mocking the constitution is a crime in India? When did that happen, or has it ever been thus and I’m way off track (as usual)? Look at how the U.S. has treated citizens that have self-declared as Socialists for years. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/28 "2012-09-12T00:06:13Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > leave aside 1984 sikh riots as an aberration. Hindus and Sikhs have always lived peacefully. > You will find Islamic extremists involved in all other major riots (there havent been many I believe). Islamic extremists have been at war all over the world with all kinds of people and places where you will least expect for ex. you might recall 2009 Uighur riots in China which left 1000 dead, or [south Thailand insurgency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency)which has left 5000+ dead and 10000 injured so far. > > SO , thats not a problem specific to India. And India tries hard to maintain peace between all communities. Very rarely does a riot happen. > > @Topic: > Present day government is highly unpopular among people due to corruption charges and is rattled and so is behaving in such way. This incident have be looked at as just an act of stupidity by some in the authority. Bail has already been granted in this case. India is in desperate need of > > 1. Anti-corruption department with independent investigation capabilities. > 2. Electoral reforms > 3. Judicial reforms > These three will eventually come(not under present govt. as they of their vested interests). There has been massive public pressure from last year. Next election is due in 2014. I’m sorry if I seem to be too cynical, but in India any “Anti-corruption department” will be _more_ corrupt than the average government agency and any “independent investigation” by a government agency will very quickly become infiltrated by the very department it is investigating and deemed useless. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/29 "2012-09-12T00:24:23Z")
BTW this is another thing to bear in mind: > [@md2000](#): > > But yes, this seems to have been **a local Indian state’s** own little “Pussy Riot” issue. India is a gigantic _federal_ union, and state and local authorities may vary widely in how they handle the liberty vs. security equation. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/30 "2012-09-12T02:48:34Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I’m sorry if I seem to be too cynical, but in India any “Anti-corruption department” will be _more_ corrupt than the average government agency and any **“independent investigation” by a government agency** will very quickly become infiltrated by the very department it is investigating and deemed useless. No people are corrupt by birth my friend. In India too, some organizations like the Indian Army, Indian Space Research Organization, Delhi Metro Corporation etc have clean image. And likewise, some have corrupt image. The proposed bill had the necessary checks and balances to be effective. It is made after extensive consultation across country. And similar laws have proven to be effective in other countries. About the bolded part, a Central Bureau of Investigation(CBI), with sufficient man power and resources already exists in India. But the problem is that it comes under direct government control. So it can not \ does not investigate its masters(unless directed by supreme court). The essence of the anti-graft movement is to detach the CBI from Government influence. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/31 "2012-09-12T06:26:23Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I didn’t use the word “genocidal.” The poster clearly meant “sectarian.” But your disingenuous nit-picking has been appropriately noted. You didn’t, but you were defending someone who did. And really, if you think pointing out the difference between ‘genocidal style massacre’ and ‘sectarian riots’ is nit picking, your disinterest in accuracy or ‘fighting ignorance’ has been noted right back. Cheers. Eta: Also, I said what I did because genocidal style massacres did take place in India, in 1947. At the time the intent really _was_ to wipe out a different community. In no situation in India except the one in Kashmir(which is a whole other story) does that hold. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/32 "2012-09-12T06:35:17Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > No people are corrupt by birth my friend. In India too, some organizations like the Indian Army, Indian Space Research Organization, Delhi Metro Corporation etc have clean image. And likewise, some have corrupt image. > > The proposed bill had the necessary checks and balances to be effective. It is made after extensive consultation across country. And similar laws have proven to be effective in other countries. > > About the bolded part, a Central Bureau of Investigation(CBI), with sufficient man power and resources already exists in India. But the problem is that it comes under direct government control. So it can not \ does not investigate its masters(unless directed by supreme court). The essence of the anti-graft movement is to detach the CBI from Government influence. If you’re talking about the Jan Lokpal bill, I’m afraid I’ll have to concur with **Mangosteen**. The way it has been proposed, it really would turn out corrupt very quickly. You’re right though, CBI should be made more independent. How exactly that would work is not clear to me. The real problem with India is that we have not yet developed our own institutions. The ones we have are largely colonial institutions, and those were put in place to serve the rulers, not the populace. As **Anaamika** says, we’re only 65 years old. Give us a hundred or so more to reach the type of corruption the US has 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/33 "2012-09-12T06:43:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > BTW this is another thing to bear in mind: > > India is a gigantic _federal_ union, and state and local authorities may vary widely in how they handle the liberty vs. security equation. You’re quite right. In fact, in W. Bengal the current chief minister(a woman) is quite authoritarian and is going crazily overboard with how badly she reacts to criticism. Had someone put in jail for forwarding cartoons of her. Had someone put in jail for asking her a discomfiting question at a rally. These people have been released, but it’s unfortunate that she could do what she did. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/34 "2012-09-12T06:49:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Actually it’s the opposite. Given the history between Hindus and Sikhs, what’s amazing is how bad it got for a few years. Indira Gandhi herself can probably take a lot of the blame for that. > > As for why it’s peaceful now, it’s not that big a mystery. The Indian government killed all the Sikh extremists in extrajudicial “police actions.” Yep, there has been no historical animosity between Hindus and Sikhs, nor is there any now. A Sikh at a Hindu temple or a Hindu at a Sikh gurudwara wouldn’t raise any eyebrows. Hell, sometimes even muslims go to the gurudwara. Here’s a [story](http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-08-22/india/33321501_1_gurdwara-muslim-community-namaaz) to warm the cockles > [@](#): > > There is no mosque or idgah in Joshimath, a town perched above the Alakhnanda deep in the Garhwal Himalayas. Usually its 800-odd Muslim residents offer namaaz at the town’s Gandhi Maidan, a public ground. On Monday, however, Gandhi maidan had turned into slush. It had been raining heavily for several days and Eid, the festival day too dawned in a downpour. The Muslim community was struggling with the problem when the head of the local gurdwara sent a heart warming message to them- The Muslims could use the main hall of the gurdwara for offering namaaz. > > So, at 9:30am, the congregation of Muslims in bright new clothes trooped down to the gurdwara and offered the ritual prayers in the big hall. After the ceremony, they embraced the Sikh community members waiting outside the hall. Some Hindus from the town were present too and offered greetings to the other two communities. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/35 "2012-09-12T07:17:50Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > If you’re talking about the Jan Lokpal bill, I’m afraid I’ll have to concur with **Mangosteen**. The way it has been proposed, it really would turn out corrupt very quickly. You’re right though, CBI should be made more independent. How exactly that would work is not clear to me. > The real problem with India is that we have not yet developed our own institutions. The ones we have are largely colonial institutions, and those were put in place to serve the rulers, not the populace. As **Anaamika** says, we’re only 65 years old. Give us a hundred or so more to reach the type of corruption the US has 🙂 I am talking about what was largely agreed upon in Rajya Sabha by NDA, left and BSP etc but wasn’t allowed to pass by the Congress Party. That there be a Lokpal authority, which receives complaints and does priliminary enquiry. CBI, whose director is independent of government control, which investigates on requests received by Lokpal. A prosecution wing, decoupled from investigation wing. And an independent juduciary. And this, with proper checks and balances. Shouldn’t be difficult to achieve at all if the government has the will and no vested interests. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/36 "2012-09-12T13:19:42Z")
Well, that’s kind of the rub. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323/37 "2012-09-14T05:35:43Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Sub say achha, for visiting anyway. > Just got back from Ladakh a bit ago. Near as I could get to my boyhood stomping grounds, since taken over by Al Qaeda so I had to move west a bit to get the same feel. Achha, toh Aap hamara padosi hai? I mean Padosi tha?😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-india-become-so-repressive/634323.md?page=1)