# When did NYC pass Philly in population **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2023, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-nyc-pass-philly-in-population/980646 "2023-03-03T11:12:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-nyc-pass-philly-in-population/980646/1 "2023-03-03T11:12:45Z")
Continuing the discussion from [When did the restaurant become a thing?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-restaurant-become-a-thing/980487/26): So as not to hijack, everything I’ve read and watched said 1820s. Then when I verified before posting, Wikipedia agreed. [http://demographia.com/db-nyuza1800.htm](http://demographia.com/db-nyuza1800.htm) > **[Demographics of Philadelphia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Philadelphia)** > > At the 2010 census, there were 1,526,006 people, 590,071 households, and 352,272 families residing in the consolidated city-county of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The population density was 4,337.3/km2 (11,233.6/mi2). There were 661,958 housing units at an average density of 1,891.9/km2 (4,900.1/mi2). > Of the 590,071 households, 27.6% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 32.1% were married couples living together, 22.3% had a female householder with no husband present, and 40.3% were... The numbers from NYC on wiki include Brooklyn which was a separate city still in that time and should not be counted. So there is some confusion that will need to wait for me to be on a computer. Maybe someone else can find the correct numbers. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-nyc-pass-philly-in-population/980646/2 "2023-03-03T13:41:13Z")
From 1691 to 1898, New York City meant all of Manhattan, about 23 square miles. Until the [Act of Consolidation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Consolidation,_1854) in 1854, Philadelphia was approximately what is called City Center today, only about 2.3 square miles. So in the period in question, New York had just about ten times the land area of Philadelphia. The Census page about [Population of the 100 Largest Cities and Other Urban Places In The United States: 1790 to 1990](https://www.census.gov/library/working-papers/1998/demo/POP-twps0027.html) says “The populations and rankings shown in this report are based on the boundaries of cities (and other urban places) at the time of each census (or at a cutoff date shortly before the census to facilitate planning).” The figures there suggest New York was already ahead of Philadelphia in 1790 (New York 33,131 vs. Philadelphia 28,522). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-nyc-pass-philly-in-population/980646/3 "2023-03-03T13:52:00Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > From 1691 to 1898, New York City meant all of Manhattan, about 23 square miles. Sure, but a lot of Manhattan was rural until surprisingly late. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-nyc-pass-philly-in-population/980646/4 "2023-03-03T14:26:50Z")
Everything I can find today is showing @RickJay to be correct. It looks like what I was confusing was possibly financial importance. Wall Street pushed NYC pass Philly by 1820. I built a chart to compare both cities. POPULATION ( NYC in Thousands) | Year | Philly | NYC | Manhattan | Bronx | Brooklyn | Queens | Staten Island | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | 1790 | 28,522 | 49 | 32 | 2 | 5 | 6 | 4 | | 1800 | 41,220 | 79 | 61 | 2 | 6 | 7 | 5 | | 1810 | 53,722 | 120 | 96 | 3 | 8 | 7 | 5 | | 1820 | 63,802 | 152 | 123 | 3 | 11 | 8 | 6 | | 1830 | 80,462 | 242 | 203 | 3 | 21 | 9 | 7 | | 1840 | 93,665 | 391 | 313 | 5 | 47 | 14 | 11 | | 1850 | 121,376 | 696 | 516 | 8 | 139 | 19 | 15 | | 1860 | 565,529 | 1,175 | 814 | 24 | 279 | 33 | 25 | | 1870 | 674,022 | 1,478 | 942 | 37 | 420 | 45 | 33 | | 1880 | 847,170 | 1,912 | 1,165 | 52 | 599 | 57 | 39 | | 1890 | 1,046,964 | 2,507 | 1,441 | 89 | 838 | 87 | 52 | | 1900 | 1,293,697 | 3,437 | 1,850 | 201 | 1,167 | 153 | 67 | | 1910 | 1,549,008 | 4,767 | 2,332 | 431 | 1,634 | 284 | 85 | | 1920 | 1,823,779 | 5,621 | 2,284 | 732 | 2,018 | 469 | 117 | | 1930 | 1,950,961 | 6,930 | 1,867 | 1,265 | 2,560 | 1,079 | 158 | | 1940 | 1,931,334 | 7,455 | 1,890 | 1,395 | 2,698 | 1,297 | 174 | | 1950 | 2,071,605 | 7,892 | 1,960 | 1,451 | 2,738 | 1,551 | 192 | | 1960 | 2,002,512 | 7,782 | 1,698 | 1,425 | 2,627 | 1,810 | 222 | | 1970 | 1,948,609 | 7,896 | 1,539 | 1,472 | 2,602 | 1,987 | 295 | | 1980 | 1,688,210 | 7,072 | 1,428 | 1,169 | 2,231 | 1,891 | 352 | | 1990 | 1,585,577 | 7,323 | 1,488 | 1,204 | 2,301 | 1,952 | 379 | | 2000 | 1,517,550 | 8,008 | 1,537 | 1,333 | 2,465 | 2,229 | 443 | ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-nyc-pass-philly-in-population/980646/5 "2023-03-03T20:10:30Z")
We had a great [thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-manhattan-pretty-much-fully-built-up/735166) about this, complete with link to a cool animation video (the link in the thread doesn’t work for me now, but [this one](https://urbanomnibus.net/2014/10/the-rise-and-fall-of-manhattans-density/) does) and reminiscing about SDMD lore. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-nyc-pass-philly-in-population/980646/6 "2023-03-06T02:17:10Z")
See [List of most populous cities in the United States by decade - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_in_the_United_States_by_decade) The chart also mentions changes, such as the amalgamation of Philly in 1854 and the incorporation of the outer boroughs of NY in 1898. But it starts in 1790 by which time Manhattan was already larger that what is now Philly city center.