# When did oral sex become a common part of sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902 "2018-10-13T14:08:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/141 "2018-10-17T19:52:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I have never said we evolved to have bigger brains than cavemen so I honestly have no idea why you want me to cite that. And you surely can’t be asking me to cite that we have different knowledge, habits and practices than cavemen. So “caveman” is a rhetorical device? And you are resorting to circular logic. You can’t define a caveman, yet claim to know their practices? You are also ignoring the presence of oral sex in orangutans, chimpanzees, bonobos, [bears](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/17/brown-bear-oral-sex_n_5500255.html), [bats](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2762080/), sheep, and wolves. As you are the one claiming that there is something different between modern humans in a hunter gather society despite the behavior existing in our closest relatives you are making the novel claim and must provide evidence. The null hypothesis in this case, due to the evidence, is that oral sex happened. It seems a non-novel behavior in similar social mammals and others. Your argument seems to be that it is just “too icky” which isn’t much of an argument. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/142 "2018-10-17T20:02:26Z")
I am not ignoring bonobos and chimps. Are you reading the thread? I have clearly stated my hypothesis that our large gluteal muscles, unique amongst apes, makes our nether regions more gross. Which also responds to Colibri, who above states I have ducked all his questions. He asked for my hypothesis. I gave it to him. He decided to ignore it. And he distinctly has decided not to admit his error that a 69 doesn’t require ass-face proximity. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/143 "2018-10-17T20:08:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I am not ignoring bonobos and chimps. Are you reading the thread? I have clearly stated my hypothesis that our large gluteal muscles, unique amongst apes, makes our nether regions more gross. > > Which also responds to Colibri, who above states I have ducked all his questions. He asked for my hypothesis. I gave it to him. He decided to ignore it. And he distinctly has decided not to admit his error that a 69 doesn’t require ass-face proximity. Once again, it is ignoring that _plus_ ignoring early documentation like Osiris. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/144 "2018-10-17T20:11:42Z")
Could we get back to addressing the OP, please? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/145 "2018-10-17T20:15:31Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Once again, it is ignoring that _plus_ ignoring early documentation like Osiris. I accept that documentation. I have not seen caveman documentation. The cave drawings cite was a bust. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/146 "2018-10-17T20:17:44Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Which also responds to Colibri, who above states I have ducked all his questions. He asked for my hypothesis. I gave it to him. He decided to ignore it. I’ve addressed it several times. If you are going to ignore my posts there’s not much reason to continue to engage you. > [@](#): > > And he distinctly has decided not to admit his error that a 69 doesn’t require ass-face proximity. Irrelevant to the general question, and as I’ve said continuing to bring it up just indicates you’re bringing nothing substantive to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/147 "2018-10-17T20:23:15Z")
Which posts addressed the issue of enlarged gluteal muscles? I didn’t see them. And for god’s sake, just admit that a 69 position puts your face near your partner’s ass. Why is that so difficult? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/148 "2018-10-17T20:31:25Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Which posts addressed the issue of enlarged gluteal muscles? I didn’t see them. > > And for god’s sake, just admit that a 69 position puts your face near your partner’s ass. Why is that so difficult? I’m not going to engage you further until you bring something substantive to the discussion. I suggest others do the same. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/149 "2018-10-17T20:38:49Z")
Wow. You can’t even admit an obvious error on something that is only partly significant to the central debate. Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/150 "2018-10-17T20:49:21Z")
Anyway, anyone who wants to debate honestly: There is a wide difference between different species on sexual behaviours. The constantly referenced bonobos have oral sex like it’s going out of style to gorillas who are much less active in that area. Why should we assume prehistoric humans were gobbling knobs at a level to be considered common practice? I saw a youtube of a gorilla using a frog for sex. Should I assume that was common amongst cavemen? ---
**Author:** ![bb49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@bb49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bb49)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/151 "2018-10-17T20:58:40Z")
It wasn’t always the case for me, but I do recall when it became common practice (; ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/152 "2018-10-17T21:54:19Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Anyway, anyone who wants to debate honestly: There is a wide difference between different species on sexual behaviours. The constantly referenced bonobos have oral sex like it’s going out of style to gorillas who are much less active in that area. Why should we assume prehistoric humans were gobbling knobs at a level to be considered common practice? I saw a youtube of a gorilla using a frog for sex. Should I assume that was common amongst cavemen? While I should avoid engaging with someone who is making an argument with jargon forms of words… Modern hunter-gatherer tribes operate on egalitarian basis, pair-bonding and sex egalitarianism is one reason why humans were able to pass on technology that is not possible in say chimpanzees. The advent of agriculture and the fact that male control of property happened changed this role, noting I am not making a moral claim here but stating the facts. This does not mean that there were no wars, or patrilineal groups or that modern hunter gatherers are like ancient peoples. But there is no evidence for chronic warfare in the Paleolithic, but an increase in Mesolithic and the first generally recognized known war is at the Jebel Sahaba cemeteries ~13,000 years ago. Levels of violence probably did vary by area. The evidence shows that anatomically modern humans did not live in small family groups like proto-humans or our close ancestors, so this indicates that this gene flow had to be based on other social factors. Some new world agrarian groups were matrilineal, although there were many different types of society in the new world. Cherokee is one example of a matrilineal society where the children “belonged” to the women line and the father’s was not consider at the same level of importance. Marital sex norms differ significantly under that case and without the churches “right” to controlling private practices that happened in Europe one would simply have to ensure that your partner is satisfied. Although I will admit that some concepts like divorce in the European context are fairly recent (~1400s). [ > [@](#): > > In old times, divorce was fairly common and the dissolution of a marriage informal. If a man wanted to end the marriage, he simply gathered his belongings and moved out. If a woman wished to dissolve the marriage, she placed her husband’s belongings outside the door to signal the end of the relationship. ]([http://webtest2.cherokee.org/About-The-Nation/Culture/General/The-Old-Cherokee-Wedding](http://webtest2.cherokee.org/About-The-Nation/Culture/General/The-Old-Cherokee-Wedding)) If you have to keep your wife pleased, it will involve more than missionary. Also note the art from the Han Dynasty in China NSFW!! [http://i.yomyomf.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/AnEyeforArt061-400x300.jpg](http://i.yomyomf.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/AnEyeforArt061-400x300.jpg) [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Qingero17.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Qingero17.jpg) [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Qingero06.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Qingero06.jpg) The point being is that the _“Mr. Yuk”_ claim you are making is purely due to your culture. And note there is no claim about morality at all in this statement. You would be grossed out by a Century egg too, but not everyone is. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/153 "2018-10-17T22:12:23Z")
The image in La Marche is described in many places, I just couldn’t link you to an image. Well, the drawings are scratched into the wall, in layers, and are unphotographable. All you ever see is line drawing replicating them. You can google it if you want; it’s interesting stuff. But then, it’s one image, as you say. Well, there are practically no cave paintings of sex at all. So, no reason to believe the people back then ever had sex? No wonder we all exist! How many cave paintings have you linked to showing some guy with poop all over his rod and some lady going “no way!” Hold yourself to the same standard. If you can’t link me to a carbon dated example, it never happened. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/154 "2018-10-17T22:22:57Z")
Pre-historic “ice age batons” AKA dildos are known and show that sex toys were in use [28,000 years ago](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4713323.stm). Researchers with Abrahamic beliefs have had challenges in studying these topics which does make cites challenging. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/155 "2018-10-17T22:31:06Z")
> [@WernhamHogg](#): > > The image in La Marche is described in many places, I just couldn’t link you to an image. [This](https://cdn.20m.es/img/2010/09/22/1139154.jpg?v=12857987) appears to be the image depicting cunnilingus, from 14,000 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/156 "2018-10-17T22:43:17Z")
That’s the one. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/157 "2018-10-17T23:04:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [This](https://cdn.20m.es/img/2010/09/22/1139154.jpg?v=12857987) appears to be the image depicting cunnilingus, from 14,000 years ago. That can’t be cunnilingus. His face is clearly near her ass. Surely the cavemen didn’t mean to document the wrong way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/158 "2018-10-17T23:46:45Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Can you provide a cite to what a “caveman” was? > > The Talmud describes people carrying special smooth stones, rich people in some cultures were known to use wool and other cultures with access to water use to defecate in water and some plants are well known for the purpose among some groups of Native Americans. In some cultures one of the hands is reserved for this use and it is a cultural taboo to have that hand on the dinner table. > > Improper sanitation in this area leads to hemorrhoids, which once again without modern post-germ theory medication was a serious threat to ones health. Anecdote is not data, but for what it’s worth, in my twenties, I spent a month camping in the Wind River Mountains as part of a wilderness school, _sans_ showers, bathrooms, or toilet paper. I can attest from personal experience that it is quite possible to wipe yourself thoroughly with smooth stones or a big handful of snow (albeit with obligatory grimace and sharply-indrawn breath). I can also confirm that, thirty days of sweat funk not withstanding, uglies were bumped, among certain of my fellow students. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/159 "2018-10-18T00:24:02Z")
So you are providing anecdotal evidence that our ancestors probably had sex despite a lack of showers? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902/160 "2018-10-18T00:32:54Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That can’t be cunnilingus. His face is clearly near her ass. Surely the cavemen didn’t mean to document the wrong way to do it. **Moderator Note** That’s enough. I’ve been patient with this nonsense so far, including insulting comments directed toward me that I would have moderated had you said them to anyone else. This is a note for trolling and generally being a jerk. If you can’t contribute to this thread in a substantive way, then I’m going to instruct you to drop out of it. Any complaint about this should be taken to ATMB. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-oral-sex-become-a-common-part-of-sex/822902.md?page=9)