# When did people start to use "Frankenstein" for the monster? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210 "2015-10-30T22:32:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/21 "2015-10-31T17:44:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I thought Shelly said the Monster’s name was “Adam”? At least in the play she wrote. In the book (which is an incredible read, BTW - Bram Stoker disappointed me in the literary-monsters department, but Shelley exceeded expectations) he’s referred to as The Creature. > [@Chronos](#): > > In Shelley’s original work, the monster _was_ named Frankenstein. The pitiful creature he created, however, was never given a name. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/22 "2015-10-31T18:05:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In fairness, I don’t recall the movie specifying that Robby didn’t have a last name. It was “Robot.” Duh. That Morbius was very imaginative with names. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/23 "2015-10-31T18:18:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It was “Robot.” Middle initial, “T”. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/24 "2015-10-31T18:26:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In the vast majority of cases where someone creates another person, the newly created person takes the name of one of his creators. > > Granted, this usually happens in a bedroom, not a laboratory, but the principle seems the same to me. Yep! In the novel the monster refers to Dr Frankenstein as his father and they do have a sort of twisted father-son relationship, so even if his first name is Adam then his full name would be Adam Frankenstein. It’s one of those occasions where you can get a win over a pedant by being even more pedantic than they are. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/25 "2015-10-31T19:04:25Z")
In [the book](http://www.boutell.com/frankenstein/chapter16.html), the monster has a few conversations with Victor, and has the following to say to him: > [@](#): > > At length the thought of you crossed my mind. I learned from your papers that you were my father, my creator; and to whom could I apply with more fitness than to him who had given me life? Always seemed to me that the monster thought of himself one of the Frankenstein family. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/26 "2015-10-31T19:13:08Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > In [the book](http://www.boutell.com/frankenstein/chapter16.html), the monster has a few conversations with Victor, and has the following to say to him: > > Always seemed to me that the monster thought of himself one of the Frankenstein family. Frankenstein Jr! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/27 "2015-11-01T01:27:31Z")
As noted above, the name “Frankenstein” was used to refer to the monster early in the 19th century. It is referred to by that name in plays, and in countless political cartoons from the later 19th century. Peggy Webling\* , who wrote the play that Universal bought, used it as the name of her monster. It certainly goes way back. You can blame the Universal film if you want, but it was already a well-established name for the creature, even then. Shelley never did give the creature a name. It is referred to as “the wretch” (by Victor Frankenstein) and by other nouns. She certainly didn’t call it Adam, or Prometheus, or any such name. In fact, you could argue tat its lack of a name is another symptom of Victor Frankenstein’s not taking care and control of his own creation. \*She wrote it for Hamilton Deane’s company, which had just had a major success with Deane’s adaptation of _Dracula_. You could argue that Deane’s adapting both stories as plays is responsible for their importance to Universal, and thus to modern Pop Culture. After Horace Liveright brought Dracula to the States, Universal saw the appeal and bought the plasys, and bought Webling’s Frankenstein as well. John Balderstone (and Garrett Fort) rewrote them for the films, and the result is history. It’s interesting that the images from the films – the heavily Slavic accednted Bela Lugosi and the Frankenstein monster with his flat-topped head and bolt neck – are completely unlike what Deane first circulated in the English Theater circuit, and he wouldn’t have recognized the images, had they been transported back in time to his early theater days. By the time he died, the movie images were familiar all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/28 "2015-11-01T03:33:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The name _is_ canonical, at least [according to XKCD.](https://xkcd.com/1589/) Well, that’s a relief. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/29 "2015-11-01T03:47:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The real question should be: Why do people mispronounce the name as Frank-en-stine when it should be pronounced like Fronk-en-steen? It’s only steen if the last syllable is spelled Stien. Since it’s spelled Stein, it’s pronounced stein. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/30 "2015-11-01T05:26:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > It’s only steen if the last syllable is spelled Stien. Since it’s spelled Stein, it’s pronounced stein. What about the Frank part of the name? In German, would that be Frank as in “let’s be frank”, or Frahnk? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/31 "2015-11-01T05:38:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The real question should be: Why do people mispronounce the name as Frank-en-stine when it should be pronounced like Fronk-en-steen? The same reason we pronounce his assistant’s name “Ee-gore” instead of “Eye-gore.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/32 "2015-11-01T05:59:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The real question should be: Why do people mispronounce the name as Frank-en-stine when it should be pronounced like Fronk-en-steen? Because only the Litvaks, the English, and other degenerates pronounce _-stein_ as -sti:n? 😉 ETA: > **[ON LANGUAGE; STINE OR STEEN? (Published 1983)](https://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/25/magazine/on-language-stine-or-steen.html)** > [@](#): > > A pattern is seen by John Algeo, professor of English at the University of Georgia. ‘‘The German names are usually pronounced with an eye sound. Most of the Jewish names have had the American influence of the ee sound, as in the words weird or receive , particularly that ei after the letter c .’’ Professor Algeo notes that, in Yiddish, a sound change occurred, with the ei pronounced as a long a , as in stain , but changed in American-influenced Yiddish to ee . ‘‘The ending of stein , pronounced steen ,’’ he concludes, ‘‘reflects an American influence.’’ > > From this, we can formulate Stein’s Rule: Although names ending in stein can be pronounced either stein or steen , names consisting exclusively of Stein are pronounced stine . (In the rare case of a person named Stein refusing to go along with the crowd, this is changed to ‘‘Steen’s Rule.’’) More seriously, it seems like German _-ei-_ has gone through different vowel shifts in different dialects, becoming something like \aj\ in Hochdeutsch while it was \ei\ among Middle-European Juden, then \i:\ among Jewish Americans, which is what Mel Brooks was having fun with. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/33 "2015-11-01T09:41:13Z")
You guys know you’ve been whooshed by Tripolar there, right? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/34 "2015-11-01T09:59:07Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > You guys know you’ve been whooshed by Tripolar there, right? I was playing along. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/35 "2015-11-01T13:47:47Z")
Growing up in the 1960s, ‘Frankenstein’ was the monster, and nobody gave a damn about his creator. I think _Young Frankenstein_ remedied that to some extent. > [@TriPolar](#): > > The real question should be: Why do people mispronounce the name as Frank-en-stine when it should be pronounced like Fronk-en-steen? To inspire the creation of restaurants, ballpark promotions, etc. centered around the combination of hot dogs and beer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/36 "2015-11-01T17:16:14Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > The same reason we pronounce his assistant’s name “Ee-gore” instead of “Eye-gore.” Finally! Also, wasn’t he the one with the hump? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/37 "2015-11-01T17:27:14Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > The same reason we pronounce his assistant’s name “Ee-gore” instead of “Eye-gore.” Actually, Viktor Frankenstein’s assistant’s name is pronounced either “Fritz” (_Frankenstein_) or “Karl” (_Bride of Frankenstein_). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/38 "2015-11-01T18:31:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Actually, Viktor Frankenstein’s assistant’s name is pronounced either “Fritz” (_Frankenstein_) or “Karl” (_Bride of Frankenstein_). 😃 Do you pronounce “Fritz” with a long or short i? Does “Karl” rhyme with “snarl” or “coral”? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/39 "2015-11-01T18:48:21Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Do you pronounce “Fritz” with a long or short i? “Frights.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210/40 "2015-11-01T22:26:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Actually, Viktor Frankenstein’s assistant’s name is pronounced either “Fritz” (_Frankenstein_) or “Karl” (_Bride of Frankenstein_). 😃 “Fritz” was the name of Frankenstein’s assistant in the very first stage adaptation of the story, way back in 1820. I don’t think Peggy Webling or the Universal screewriters were aware of it, though. “Fritz” is a common German name, and was often used by the English as a German name when they needed one in a drama. At first I thought that that play Fritz was added for the most common literary reason – to give Victor Frankenstein someone to talk to, giving an excuse for revelatory dialogue. But apparently they originally intended stage Fritz to be a silent part. Whatever the reason, Fritz was eventually given a LOT of dialogue, and did serve as the font of exposition. You can’t keep a good trope down. It’s of interest that Fritz, either on stage or in the 1931 film was a hunchback. Neither was Karl in _Bride_, or even Bela Lugosi’s _Ygor_ in _Son_ and _Ghost_. It wasn’t until _House of Frankenstein_ in 1944 that we had Daniel ---- Daniel, fer cryin’ out loud! Can you imagine a more harmless name? – as the first Hunchbacked Assistant. He was played by J. Carroll Naish, an actor who deserved better. At least he got to be the Hunchbacked Assistant to Boris Karloff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-people-start-to-use-frankenstein-for-the-monster/736210.md?page=3)