# When did realize the scope and scale of the universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-realize-the-scope-and-scale-of-the-universe/651538 "2013-02-27T18:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-realize-the-scope-and-scale-of-the-universe/651538/41 "2013-03-01T23:31:01Z")
I’ve often read that one of the objections against Galileo’s publications was that it was written in the vernacular, I gather that means some sort of Italian, and not Latin, and therefore accessible to the masses, which would pose a greater threat to the keepers of the belief. If a handful of academics were discussing astronomy, who could care? But if some of the lay folks were to get ahold of this stuff, hoo boy. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-realize-the-scope-and-scale-of-the-universe/651538/42 "2013-03-02T05:57:07Z")
This is rehashing a previous thread, but… Galileo got himself in trouble by promoting heliocentric in the wrong time and place. The prohibition against Galileo’s book also mentioned the book by someone else, a Spanish “scientist” or philosopher. This guy subscribed to Pythagoras (as in numerology) and along with that, he believed in the heliocentric model. He took as his justification, his own personal interpretation of a passage from the Book of Job. To get his personal interpretation, he retranslated it from the original Hebrew, but his interpretation was at odds with the official church version. Galileo had inadvertantly timed his cause as backing up someone who challenged the church heirachy and disputed their orthodoxy in a number of ways while promoting pagan numerological mysticism. His friend the pope gave him a show trial and a moderate sentence (house arrest) to show that nobody gets away with challenging the church. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-realize-the-scope-and-scale-of-the-universe/651538/43 "2013-03-02T06:06:09Z")
Aha. Here was the discussion, and what I said: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14659468&postcount=22](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14659468&postcount=22) > [@](#): > > Reading the Internet, which is a world wide and a centimeter deep, it’s hard to get detailed information. However, this is what I see… > > The church’s decree mentions not just Galileo but also Zuniga, and his commentary on the book of Job. From what I can find, Zuniga was pushing something called Pythagorean principles. From what little I’ve found, this suggest attempting to reconcile the teachings of Greek philosophers with the church’s teachings. In this, he seemed to be forcefully pushing his own interpretation of the bible, guaranteeing a conflict with the church hierarchy. > > Also remember that Pythagoras in those contexts probably includes numerology and other non- scientific, non-religious mysticism. (No triangles need apply) Buried in the Greek teachings were the speculations of Anaxagoras who suggested the sun was the central fire and the earth revolved around it (with much the same reception Galileo got in his time). > > Zuniga apparently found some backing for this in an ambiguous passage in the book of Job. Because of the ambiguity, he suggested that church was wrong in its translation and interpretation. He argued (in the book banned along with galileo’s) that the correct interpretation could be found once the original Chaldean version could be found and interpreted. Note this also suggested even the Hebrew second temple version might not be accurate. Heliocentrism was just one more point where “the Greeks are right and the church is wrong” > > It’s one thing to argue astronomy or other details. By backing heliocentrism and putting himself in the company of someone(some group or faction) who suggested the church had the Holy Scripture all wrong, someone promoting some pagan mysticism, Galileo inadvertantly put himself squarely on the wrong end of a nasty theological dispute. Hence the nastiness and vindictiveness with which the church responded… > > I wish I could find that article. I thought it was Scientific American, but I can’t find it in the index; it’s been 30 years or so. IIRC the author was among the first allowed to read some of the original Vatican archive documents. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-realize-the-scope-and-scale-of-the-universe/651538/44 "2013-03-02T12:51:15Z")
First of all, that sounds like incredible stretching to me: Because it mentions Zuniga at all, that means that was the most significant thing about the trial and he wouldn’t have been in nearly as much trouble without that reference. But all the mention of heliocentrism…nah, the Church couldn’t be against that, it was a cover. [This](http://my.pclink.com/~allchin/1814/retrial/1616docs.htm) site, which apparently has translations of the actual documents of Galileo’s trial, seems to make it pretty clear that the main issue they took with Zuniga’s book is its support of Heliocentrism: > [@The Inquisition](#): > > This Holy Congregation has also learned about the spreading and acceptance by many of the false Pythagorean doctrine, altogether contrary to the Holy Scripture, that the earth moves and the sun is motionless, which is also taught by Nicholaus Copernicus’s _On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres_ and by Diego de Zuniga’s _On Job_. > This may be seen from a certain letter published by a certain Carmelite Father, whose title is _Letter of the Reverend Father Paolo Foscarini, on the Pythagorean and Copernican Opinion of the Earth’s Motion and Sun’s Rest and on the New Pythagorean World System_, in which the said Father tries to show that the above-mentioned doctrine of the sun’s rest at the center of the world and the earth’s motion is consonant with the truth and does not contradict Holy Scripture. Therefore, in order that this opinion may not creep any further to the prejudice of Catholic truth, the Congregation has decided that the books by Nicolaus Copernicus and Diego de Zuniga be suspended until corrected; but that the book of the Carmelite Father Paolo Antonio Foscarini be completely prohibited and condemned; and that all other books which teach the same be likewise prohibited, according to whether with the present decree it prohibits, condemns, and suspends them respectively. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-realize-the-scope-and-scale-of-the-universe/651538.md?page=2)