# When did 'shopping centers' become 'malls'? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835 "2014-05-20T16:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/1 "2014-05-20T16:00:59Z")
When I was little my mom frequently took me to Mission Valley Center in San Diego. Bored the crap out of me, though there were some smooth, abstract, cement dinosaurs to play on. Mission Valley Center was a ‘shopping center’. When I was little, a place that was a collection of stores, that was not a bunch of storefronts on a street, was a ‘shopping center’. In the late-'70s/early-'80s I understood that an indoor collection of stores was called a ‘mall’. Sometime after that, outdoor collections of stores – ‘shopping centers’ – became ‘malls’. So when did ‘shopping centers’ become ‘malls’? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/2 "2014-05-20T16:26:14Z")
They never did become malls. Shopping centers are still with us. They share a common parking lot but not a common entrance or interior. They’re typically anchored by a grocery store and a pharmacy, and have a bunch of smaller shops as well. Malls are a whole 'nother thing. They came along after shopping centers, but don’t have much overlap with them. They have a common interior space. No grocery, usually no pharmacy (unless you count GNC-type places). They’re anchored by department stores like Sears, Macy’s, Penney’s, Nordstrom, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/3 "2014-05-20T16:27:34Z")
The first factory outlet centers opened in the mid-70s, and IIRC they called themselves “malls” despite the fact the stores weren’t under a single roof. I don’t know about other places, but around here, even real malls (a bunch of stores, including one or more large anchor stores, under one roof) don’t use the term, prefering to call themselves “(Name) Center” or “Plaza” or in the case of Westfield’s ill-fated attempt to come into this area,“Town.” The industry associations all use “shopping center” in their names, so I suspect it’s our own damn fault instead of blaming the marketers. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/4 "2014-05-20T16:33:19Z")
I just happened to know [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harundale_Mall), and Wiki expands on it. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/5 "2014-05-20T16:41:58Z")
They were also called [“strip malls”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_mall) at some point - and likely shortened to just “malls” in popular language. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/6 "2014-05-20T17:56:25Z")
That’s a good question. I grew up in the industry, sort of, and the two “shopping centers” built in the early 1950s were called that in their very names. They were also open shopping plazas surrounded by stores, as were the other two “shopping centers” in town. It was around 1970-72 that all four were considered old news and the process of closing them in to form “shopping malls” - the name change being a big part of the rebuilding and rebranding - started. Strip mall is a back-formation from closed, plaza-centric malls. They were a strip, or highway strip, or strip stores. “Mall” gussied them up when it became a common term for desirable shopping destinations. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/7 "2014-05-20T18:01:01Z")
I frequently see terms used interchangeably. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/8 "2014-05-20T18:23:05Z")
You must drive by the first [mall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northgate_Mall_(Seattle)#History) quite often. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/9 "2014-05-20T18:43:21Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I don’t know about other places, but around here, even real malls (a bunch of stores, including one or more large anchor stores, under one roof) don’t use the term, prefering to call themselves “(Name) Center” or “Plaza” or in the case of Westfield’s ill-fated attempt to come into this area,“Town.” The industry associations all use “shopping center” in their names, so I suspect it’s our own damn fault instead of blaming the marketers. In Lincoln, ne, Westfield tried hard to rename Gateway Shopping Center “Westfield Shoppingtown”. I think they’ve given up, because it just didn’t stick (and sounds stupid). ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/10 "2014-05-20T18:51:15Z")
In doing a little nostalgic digging, I came across another term of the era: breezeway. Breezeways were side or connecting corridors, usually covered but open at the ends, in open-sky shopping centers. They were typically just long enough for four to six facing stores, usually small things like barber shops, liquor stores, dry cleaners and the like. “Breezeway shops” was a unique identifier for the area. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/11 "2014-05-20T19:00:37Z")
> [@simster](#): > > They were also called [“strip malls”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_mall) at some point - and likely shortened to just “malls” in popular language. Strip malls are not necessarily enclosed. They are not the same as indoor, climate controlled shopping areas. To me, a shopping center might be a mall (enclosed), a strip mall (not enclosed), or just a group of shops associated somehow, with convenient, probably central, parking. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/12 "2014-05-20T19:01:01Z")
We have three malls in Tucson and all of them have the word “mall” as part of their official name. Park Place Mall, Tucson Mall, and Foothills Mall. There’s also a shopping center that used to be an enclosed mall and is still known as El Con Mall. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/13 "2014-05-20T21:33:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > They never did become malls. Shopping centers are still with us. They share a common parking lot but not a common entrance or interior. They’re typically anchored by a grocery store and a pharmacy, and have a bunch of smaller shops as well. > > Malls are a whole 'nother thing. They came along after shopping centers, but don’t have much overlap with them. They have a common interior space. No grocery, usually no pharmacy (unless you count GNC-type places). They’re anchored by department stores like Sears, Macy’s, Penney’s, Nordstrom, etc. Some did, technically. A local shopping center got a roof and became a mall. 😃 Also note the second and third definitions: [qoute] mall [mawl; British also mal] Show IPA noun 1. Also called shopping mall. a large retail complex containing a variety of stores and often restaurants and other business establishments housed in a series of connected or adjacent buildings or in a single large building. Compare shopping center. 2. a large area, usually lined with shade trees and shrubbery, used as a public walk or promenade. 3. Chiefly Upstate New York. a strip of land, usually planted or paved, separating lanes of opposite traffic on highways, boulevards, etc. 4. the game of pall-mall. 5. the mallet used in the game of pall-mall. [/quote] I’ve noticed my local university streets are called malls. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/14 "2014-05-20T22:03:53Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > Some did, technically. A local shopping center got a roof and became a mall. 😃 As I said above. There are at least five concatenations of stores in the Sacramento area that began as open-plaza “shopping centers” and evolved, in more or less the same time frame, into covered, sealed “malls.” There is also one very old-school “shopping village” that hasn’t changed since it was built in the late 1940s, a giant closed mall that was built that way around 1972, and a downtown project that started off as a street, was closed into a pedestrian mall, and in successive changes has grown covered, indoor and multi-layer spaces. I’d imagine that most towns have similar sites, but Sacramento always seemed especially fertile and varied in this respect. (I mean, it’s gotta have something to its credit…) ETA: And a modern take on the shopping village, built around 1974, that has always been a semi-failure of boutique stores and inaccessibility. Only the megamall across the street kept it alive. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/15 "2014-05-20T22:50:29Z")
There are some changes afoot at the Circle K. The current desired designation is [Lifestyle Center](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_center_(retail)): _A lifestyle center is a shopping center or mixed-used commercial development that combines the traditional retail functions of a shopping mall with leisure amenities oriented towards upscale consumers._ Altho, I dont think they mean, _ **The** _ lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/16 "2014-05-20T23:26:04Z")
^ Please don’t tell me Circle K isn’t what I think it is, because I’m too busy ROTF. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/17 "2014-05-20T23:35:07Z")
Mission Valley, described in the OP, isn’t a strip mall, though. It’s huge, and there are no grocery stores. When I was a kid (at the same time in the same place), the anchors were department stores: Bullock’s, May Company, and I forget the third. We also called it a shopping center, never a mall. Fashion Valley and UTC were the same. I think it’s now a Westfield Shopping Town, or possibly Towne. As far as I know no one is dumb enough to call it that except the signs at the entrance. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/18 "2014-05-21T00:31:10Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I frequently see terms used interchangeably. Indeed, “shopping center (or centre)” and “shopping mall” are synonyms in the English-language press in Thailand. And the British pronunciation of “mall” is one I’ve never gotten used to. It just sounds too friggin’ weird. In British, “mall” rhymes with “shall.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/19 "2014-05-21T00:36:06Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > And the British pronunciation of “mall” is one I’ve never gotten used to. It just sounds too friggin’ weird. In British, “mall” rhymes with “shall.” Not with ‘fork,’ then? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835/20 "2014-05-21T00:40:38Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not with ‘fork,’ then? That would still sound better than they do pronounce it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-shopping-centers-become-malls/688835.md?page=2)