# When did southern patriotism become part of the culture? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 28, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196 "2015-03-28T11:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/61 "2015-04-12T19:37:26Z")
Spoke - with respect, let’s quote the whole paragraph. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The concept of patriotism has evolved over the course of American history. Modern-style patriotic displays didn’t exist most of the time because America didn’t have a place in world culture until recently, after WWII. In cultural mythology, admittedly, America was a special place - the land of the free, the place where streets were paved with gold, Horatio Alger-type rise by your bootstraps successes - but it so obviously stood apart from the Old Country that daily displays weren’t necessary. Fourth of July celebrations, though, were extravagant, the biggest display of the year. Not Exapno’s best treatment ever, but it was really an introductory paragraph, presented before his main point. Speaking generally though, I would expect the form of patriotic displays to evolve over a couple of hundred years. The opposite case would be more extraordinary in my view. That said, Spoke’s links to objects festooned with flag imagery were interesting and helpful, if not exactly decisive IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/62 "2015-04-12T19:53:32Z")
I would think the sleds alone would be proof that patriotic displays were not limited to the 4th of July. Unless the 4th of July was a whole lot colder then than now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/63 "2015-04-12T21:20:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There aren’t two sides to this. Everybody who commented found your response unclear and your refusal to clarify insulting. That’s a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/64 "2015-04-12T22:04:26Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I would think the sleds alone would be proof that patriotic displays were not limited to the 4th of July. Unless the 4th of July was a whole lot colder then than now. 😉 Global warming is even worse than THEY have told us. The conspiracy is not only worse than we thought; we got it backwards. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/65 "2015-04-13T02:20:26Z")
**Moderator Note** **gogogophers** and **Exapno Mapcase** , let’s drop the personal remarks. If you wish to criticize one another personally, please take it to the Pit. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/66 "2015-04-13T04:33:56Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I would think the sleds alone would be proof that patriotic displays were not limited to the 4th of July. Unless the 4th of July was a whole lot colder then than now. 😉 Except I’m not sure whether to view those examples as instances of patriotism or mere decoration. And by “I’m not sure,” I mean “I really don’t know.” I googled and landed upon [the Puritan Origins of American Patriotism](http://smile.amazon.com/Puritan-Origins-American-Patriotism-ebook/dp/B0015KQZ3A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428898365&sr=8-1&keywords=George+McKenna+patriotism) (2007). The author argues that patriotism evolved over time and that groups most apt to be prone to ostentatious patriotism shifted from WASPs in the 1800s, who exhibited some anti-Catholic, nativist and anti-Southern sentiments, to some of those former outsiders today. Interesting if true. Cite: [http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300100990](http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300100990) Only $15 on Kindle and $9 used after shipping! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/67 "2015-04-13T12:03:58Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I googled and landed upon [the Puritan Origins of American Patriotism](http://smile.amazon.com/Puritan-Origins-American-Patriotism-ebook/dp/B0015KQZ3A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428898365&sr=8-1&keywords=George+McKenna+patriotism) (2007). The author argues that patriotism evolved over time and that groups most apt to be prone to ostentatious patriotism shifted from WASPs in the 1800s, who exhibited some anti-Catholic, nativist and anti-Southern sentiments, to some of those former outsiders today. Interesting if true. Cite: [http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300100990](http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300100990) I don’t buy that at all. As I mentioned above, the War of 1812 ushered in a period of enthusiastic patriotism, and I suspect that was especially so in the South, where the signal victory for the Americans was won, and won by Southerners. (New Orleans.) Even prior to that battle, Andrew Jackson as an individual was known to be fiercely patriotic, not to say jingoistic. Also, I just can’t help noticing that a lot of books flattering to New Englanders get published in New England. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196/68 "2015-04-14T05:13:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > **gogogophers** and **Exapno Mapcase** , let’s drop the personal remarks. If you wish to criticize one another personally, please take it to the Pit. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator I understand you have to go after low hanging fruit in this kind of situation in order to appease established contributors, but come on… Asked and answered a day ago on my behalf. Throw me a bone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-southern-patriotism-become-part-of-the-culture/716196.md?page=3)