# When did Spade know? Maltese Falcon Spoiler. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 14, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440 "2014-05-14T15:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheZenPaperboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@TheZenPaperboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheZenPaperboy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/1 "2014-05-14T15:17:52Z")
I was thinking about the Maltese Falcon and this popped in my head. S P O I L E R \_ \_ Did Sam Spade know who killed his partner when he was at the crime scene. He does mention at the end of the book that she would be the only reason that he would be at the end of a dark alley with his gun not out. So was he playing along get the evidence on her? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/2 "2014-05-14T17:05:19Z")
He very strongly suspected Ms. O’Shaugnessy from the start. He says as much when he says that Archer would only have done something that stupid due to blindness for a woman. And her story was just as weak as he later said it was. Spade likes women a lot too, but he assumes that the kind of woman he will meet just wants to use someone like him. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/3 "2014-05-14T17:13:33Z")
I don’t think he knew it from the start. I believe he figured out at some point that any of them would sell the others out. Why did she kill Archer? It has been a while since I have read the book or seen the film. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/4 "2014-05-14T17:18:07Z")
Haven’t seen book or film for a while, but I think he did have a stong suspicion and he had been waiting to wrap up everything before finally confronting her. It’s as if he was holding out hope that she somehow didn’t kill him, or maybe could justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/5 "2014-05-14T18:17:59Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t think he knew it from the start. I believe he figured out at some point that any of them would sell the others out. And the point where he figured out that she would sell him out was when she pretended to faint in the street outside his apartment, so he would have to carry her in and his hands would be occupied and he couldn’t defend himself against Wilmer, Gutman, and Cairo, who were waiting inside. > [@](#): > > Why did she kill Archer? It has been a while since I have read the book or seen the film. She wanted him to shoot it out with Thursby, who was accompanying her and who she was afraid of. Then it was clear that Archer wouldn’t shoot Thursby, so she borrowed Thursby’s gun and shot him herself, hoping to pin the murder on Thursby and thus get rid of him. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/6 "2014-05-14T18:24:45Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/7 "2014-05-14T18:29:41Z")
I wonder sometimes if she did get out in 20 years, and if he did wait for her. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/8 "2014-05-14T19:42:09Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I wonder sometimes if she did get out in 20 years, and if he did wait for her. Spade was lying when he said it and knew it, and so did she. He was just being cruel. Spade was screwing Mrs. Archer and his secretary and actually liked his secretary. He didn’t even like O’Shaughnessy, but was happy to lie to her about it so she would think he was a sap. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/9 "2014-05-14T19:55:13Z")
If I may hijack, a friend of mine is firmly convinced that at the end of the film…“Show her in Angel, show her in”, Archer’s Wife shoots Spade. (Or is it “shoo”?) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/10 "2014-05-14T21:27:17Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > If I may hijack, a friend of mine is firmly convinced that at the end of the film…“Show her in Angel, show her in”, Archer’s Wife shoots Spade. > > (Or is it “shoo”?) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zSd_MCIIKNk/hqdefault.jpg "Maltese Falcon In exactly 7min") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSd_MCIIKNk) The ending is at the link. The last line is “the stuff dreams of made of.” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/11 "2014-05-14T21:32:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSd\_MCIIKNk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSd_MCIIKNk) > > The ending is at the link. The last line is “the stuff dreams of made of.” Well, technically, the last line is “huh?” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/12 "2014-05-14T21:48:23Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Well, technically, the last line is “huh?” Grin! Thank you! That’s one of the best trivia answers ever! ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/13 "2014-05-14T22:38:22Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Spade was lying when he said it and knew it, and so did she. He was just being cruel. Spade was screwing Mrs. Archer and his secretary and actually liked his secretary. He didn’t even like O’Shaughnessy, but was happy to lie to her about it so she would think he was a sap. Cite for screwing his secretary? She may have been in love with him, but I don’t think she was his type. There’s nothing in the book or the other stories about Spade that indicate anything like that. In the book she was younger, more like a scrubbed student type. And as for Archer’s wife, he said he regretted that he ever started anything with her; she probably got under his skin when he was bored, and forced him to continue to save a falling-out with his partner. He didn’t like or respect Archer, but it must have been convenient to have him around. I think Spade was fascinated by Brigid but was never fooled by her. He found her exciting because she was dangerous, but that’s not much of a recipe for a long-term relationship. I’m not sure how long it took him to put all the pieces together about how Archer was shot, you can’t really tell from the narrative, it might have been right away as soon as he heard that Archer’s gun was in his pocket and his coat buttoned, or it might have been during the final confrontation with the gang, or anywhere in between. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/14 "2014-05-14T22:49:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Grin! Thank you! That’s one of the best trivia answers ever! Heh. Yeah, most people don’t take much notice of Ward Bond’s line (because the \*‘stuff that dreams are made of’ \*line is so striking). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/15 "2014-05-15T01:05:56Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSd\_MCIIKNk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSd_MCIIKNk) > > The ending is at the link. The last line is “the stuff dreams of made of.” Perhaps he was speaking of the novel. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/16 "2014-05-15T01:07:08Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Well, technically, the last line is “huh?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/17 "2014-05-15T01:24:57Z")
Every time I remember or see that movie I always think that Sam had enough time to find an sculptor to make a quick replica of the bird… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/18 "2014-05-15T01:26:49Z")
I’ve only seen the Bogart movie. “Huh” is technically the correct answer, but it’s more a grunt than a line. As far as the secretary goes, I just assumed that they were an item and she didn’t care that he was seeing Mrs. Archer because she had guys on the side too. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/19 "2014-05-15T14:23:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps he was speaking of the novel. Correct. “The stuff that dreams are made of” line does not appear in the novel. The last line of the novel is “Show her in, darling”, when Effie Perrine tells Spade that Iva Archer wants to see him. The speculation that Iva then shoots Spade is interesting but I don’t see why it would happen. Iva’s husband is dead, Brigid O’Shaughnessy is out of the way, and the only woman in Spade’s life is his secretary, who he seems to be careful to keep in a friendly but non-romantic basis, no doubt on a “don’t shit where you eat” rationale. It would seem the best opportunity for Iva to try to move in on Spade. Of course he’s going to brush her off, since Spade apparently needs some kind of danger to get attached to any woman - Iva because she is married to his scummy partner, Brigid because she is a criminal and an amoral seductress, but not Effie because she is safe and a good girl who lives with her mother. No doubt Spade hired Effie in part because he knew he would not be tempted by her. What struck me in the novel is how Spade exploits Brigid. He takes her $200 at the beginning, even though he doesn’t believe her story. Then later he takes $725 of the last $750 she has left, telling her casually to hock her jewelry to get money to live on. He does this to keep her under his thumb, but it reminded me how a pimp makes sure his prostitutes never have any resources of their own. Spade is a cynical opportunist. It is a tribute to Hammett’s skill as a writer that Spade still “sells” as a character. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440/20 "2014-05-15T20:24:04Z")
Well said, Shodan. I agree with your comments. And on the OP’s question: I realized that I never weighed in this. In my view Spade starts suspecting Brigid the moment he learns that Archer’s coat was buttoned. But he doesn’t act immediately because he knows that the somewhat thick police investigators will need more than his opinion (of the circumstances in which Archer would have made sure he had his gun accessible, versus the circumstances in which he’d have kept his coat buttoned). So Spade let events play out, hoping to get more impressive evidence. And as Shodan said, Spade enjoys romances that are founded on danger–so keeping Brigid close was no chore. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-spade-know-maltese-falcon-spoiler/688440.md?page=2)